Life Boost with Amelia

Ep. 78 | Leaders Have Panic Attacks Too: A Conversation On Unspoken Struggles and Thriving in Vet Med with Hugh Hiemstra of The Vet Vault

• Amelia Knight Pinkston • Season 2 • Episode 78

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In this candid conversation, Amelia and guest Hugh Hiemstra, emergency veterinarian and host of the Vet Vault and Vet Vault clinical podcasts, chat about feelings of overwhelm that we all experience (even the leaders!) but often don’t talk about in vet med. They share strategies that have helped them to feel more resilient in vet med and the power of increasing self-awareness in order to find a path and navigate vet med in a way that lights you up more than it burns you out. The episode explores a new way of looking at what it means to be “professional” in vet med and offers practical tips that veterinary professionals - from new grads to seasoned leaders - can start to put into practice today to start creating positive change in your own life and to help to create a more positive and sustainable culture in vet med.

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical, mental health, or professional advice. I am a certified health and life coach, not a licensed medical or mental health professional. Please consult with a healthcare provider before making any changes to your physical or mental health routines. If you are experiencing a crisis, seek help from a qualified professional or contact emergency services.

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Amelia:

Welcome to the Life Boost with Amelia podcast where we're changing the narrative around what true health and success look like- they should give you energy, not drain it. I'm your host, Dr. Amelia multi-passionate integrative health and life coach, entrepreneur, and recovered burned out veterinarian. Together, we'll explore the science behind how your brain and body work, including the unconscious mind, while also connecting with what your heart needs in order to stand up to the norm of feeling stuck on a hamster wheel-working hard yet feeling exhausted and not where you want to be- and instead live a life that makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning and in love with who you see when you look in the mirror. The reality is if you do what everyone else is doing, you're not going to feel good. Let's break the norm. Hi friend. If you have ever just had one of those days in vet med, where you just feel totally overwhelmed and you just wish in the middle of everything, you could leave. You're really going to enjoy today's episode. Today's conversation was that Hubert Hiemstra and as you'll hear soon, I'm a huge fan of his and was really excited to have him on the podcast. Hubert is an emergency veterinarian and the host of the vet vault and vet vault clinical podcasts. His veterinary career has spanned two decades and three continents, including starting and running his own emergency practice in Perth for the better part of a decade. In 2019 Hubert started the vet vault podcast with Dr. Gerardo poli to help vets fall back in love with the vet profession. And in 2021, they added their clinical podcasts where Hubert uses the extensive gaps in his knowledge that 20 years of practice has highlighted to ask questions of some very smart specialists to help other vets sharpen their clinical game, take better care of their patients and get their mojo back. Hugh is a dad of three energetic boys and their crazy house is home to two dogs, a cockatiel and many, many chickens. When he's not making podcasts or working in the clinic, he loves to run through the forest in his area or surfing in the warm Queensland waves. Enjoy the episode. Hello and welcome Hugh. Thank you so much for being

Hugh:

here. Oh, it's such a privilege to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Amelia:

Yeah, I really have been looking forward to this conversation for a while and honestly, also felt a little bit nervous slash excited just because I'm a huge fan of yours. I really appreciate all of the work that you're doing in our profession and the way that you are creating such a supportive, helpful, refreshing space is

Hugh:

amazing. Thank you, that's a lovely Compliment. The nervous thing always cracks me up. I'm always nervous going into interviewing other people as well. And, and then I once had somebody I really respected, I forget who it was, but really in my head way up there. And just before we started recording and I was shitting myself and they went, Oh, I'm so nervous. I'm like, What? I

Amelia:

love that, yeah it feels like jumping into like cold water to me, like, if I, like, want to jump in, but there's a period where it's like, whew, like, heart is racing and I feel a little awkward

Hugh:

Look It shows that you care. That's how I see it these days. I'm like, well, if I'm nervous, it means I care, which is a good sign.

Amelia:

Yes. So true. I do. So you have so many amazing resources and one that's really just the tip of the iceberg is your VetVault newsletter, which is the best. Like I get a lot of veterinary emails and yours is the only one that when I get it, I make sure to just save it so that I can sit down and read it when I can give it my full attention. So for anyone who is not yet signed up, I just want to give a plug, like. right after listening to this, you have to sign up because it is so helpful. There's this three to one format that you follow. And so there are these three clinical pearls, which help me to stay up to date. And they come from your clinical podcasts that are so helpful. Like, for example, I just learned that now we are knowing that the number of raisins and grapes that could be causing toxicity, like maybe one grape or raisin per 10 pounds, or two if they're cooked,

Hugh:

that was great. I loved that. Except somebody asked me the other day, have I got the actual reference for that because they told their colleagues at work, their bosses are like, well, because obviously people are worried about saying that and then the dog still gets kidney failure. Uh, and I was like, Dr. Wiser said, so she's a big deal. That's my reference. I don't know.

Amelia:

So little things like that. It's so helpful. And then you share two other things, usually like really great quotes or something like that. And then one thing to think about. And a few months ago, you shared something in that things to think about section that we're going to dive into today. And you started it saying, I had a proper little panic attack at work a couple of weeks ago, which is a great, great way to start. And you went on to share, like, it wasn't even a particularly rough shift, but on that night, you say you experienced an immense desire to get up, walk out, possibly in tears and never come back. And wow, Like, I think we've all been there, like that feeling of complete overwhelm. And you're just like, I just want to tap out. Like, I do not want to do this. But what really struck me was that it was so refreshing to hear it from someone like you, like, you have 2 decades of experience. You're doing all this work, educating through your clinical podcasts and you are so open about your journey and you call it the first decade of despair in vet med and all that you've learned and the strategies to really thrive and so to then hear you still sharing that very human experience. I thought was just so refreshing. And so I sent an email just saying how much I appreciated that and the work that I'm sure goes into those emails and also shared some anti-anxiety tools because I think everyone should have tools to help to stop panic attacks. But you shared that you were kind of surprised that you got more responses than usual to that email. So could you share a little bit. Like, what were the responses like? What were people saying to that?

Hugh:

Yeah, it's funny when I, when I write that last section, there's something to think about as you see it can sometimes be quite personal. It's weird when I, when I write it, it's almost like I don't think about the fact that other people are going to read this, even though I know that I do. I write it for myself and then I publish it. And then when people reply, I'm like, Oh, that's great. Shit, people read it. I feel a bit awkward

Amelia:

Sure. Mm.

Hugh:

sharing so openly about it. Um, responses. Well, the first thing is the, uh, a good friend who's officially my, my big boss in the company that I work for. And I know he reads them newsletters as well. Dr. Rob Webster. Uh, he called and said, Hey, are you okay? Uh, which, which is interesting. My response to that, because then I was suddenly slightly embarrassed. I guess cause I'm fine. I'm fine. Which is that such a human response to say, no, I'm fine. And it's there, it shows that there's somebody who cares and read it and went, Oh shit, he's went through a bad day. Let me reach out and check. He was okay. And I was. fascinated by my own response to be, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't worry. There's nothing wrong. I've dealt, I've dealt,

Amelia:

I feel like we're programmed

Hugh:

got this, I've dealt with it, don't worry. Uh, and then, and then similar to your response where people just reached out and said, Hey, I, I really identified with that. And thank you for saying it and acknowledging that you have moments like that or times like that in practice. And again, it almost surprised me because I feel like Duh, it's a tough job. You're to have shit times in any job. I've got friends in all sort of industries, but ours specifically, we know that it has distinct pressures. And so the fact that, that people were almost admitting to, Oh yes, I also secretly sometimes feel like that sometimes. Yeah, of course you do. That's good. I can't imagine how you would get through this with not having the occasional wobble in clinical practice.

Amelia:

Absolutely. Yeah. And it's funny, right? Because it is just like a normal feeling that we're all experiencing. But then it's kind of like we're Silently suffering from it and then the weight of that and, and then I think that leads into imposter syndrome of like, oh, I'm having these feelings like maybe I don't belong because it seems like everybody else is doing fine,

Hugh:

we're a funny bunch, us humans, and I think us vets in particular. It's that high performance thing. This is our industry. We're an industry of intelligent problem solvers and we, and we're fine. We can, I've got the shit and I have to, even if I don't, I've got to look like it. Otherwise I'll show weakness, which I think is completely natural. It is, I think it's, it's, it's also. normal to, to be like that. But I think working towards being less like that is, is important. And because when I got those responses and then my surprise about people's response made me think of one of the episodes I forget the number, but with Dr. Steve Joslyn, who's a good friend of mine who's a specialist radiologist. And in that episode he shared on, on air when he had a full blown panic attack. With his work there was stuff going on with his work and the politics around it and he was walking back from lunch, I think, back to work and he had this racing heart and he went, I can't actually go into this building. And then thinking about it, I was actually quite surprised that he was sharing that. Cause I also thought like, no, you've got to put this wall up. He's a, he's up there. He's a big dude. He's a specialist, uh, and telling the whole world that he had a panic attack that completely disabled him from going back into that workplace. You know, you almost go like, that's a bit embarrassing, but it's not, it's just human, it's so special that he talks about it.

Amelia:

Yeah, I think that is amazing that he's talking about it. I think if we talk about it, then we can also be more proactive about supporting ourselves through that and noticing that it is something that we all are experiencing. And I think even in vet school, if we were talking about those feelings more and even empowering and teaching things like anti anxiety tools, I think that is a part or should be at least a part of vet med knowing that we are inevitably going to be encountering these big stressors.

Hugh:

Yeah, for sure.

Amelia:

I think it has been interesting for me too looking at things from a nervous system perspective and seeing, like, I think that so often we are getting selected and rewarded for being in that like flight trauma response in a way of we are high achievers. We are getting rewarded for perfect grades. And so then, we learn that we are getting successful and feeling loved when we are right and able to do everything. And so the thought of showing vulnerability, I think can actually feel like, like we're being chased by a lion to our nervous system.

Hugh:

Absolutely.

Amelia:

And so. You do make it seem so natural. I feel like in all of the, the resources that you share, it does seem really natural for you to be sharing those feelings. Like I was listening to your podcast episode on acute respiratory distress, and you're talking about that feeling that we can get, like when a case comes in, suddenly we are having issues with breathing or panic of just that feeling like, Oh my gosh, I have to figure this out out. yeah, this is on

Hugh:

me now. This is bad and I've got to solve this. Oh shit.

Amelia:

Exactly. Totally what goes through my head. And I think even just acknowledging and sharing that makes it so much easier to then absorb that information, like not knowing that I'm alone. And so I'm curious, has this always been somewhat natural to you to be sharing that experience? And if not, what helps you to start being more honest about those feelings?

Hugh:

It's a great question. Um, I'll say in the moment, I don't know, and in that post I wrote about when I had the little panic attack, what I did wrong in the moment is not acknowledging it because my ego was stopping me because I still, you know, I'm the experienced vet in the building. I work with a bunch of 20 and 30 something year olds, I, I should have my shit together. So in the moment I did not go to somebody and say, Hey, I'm actually having a tough day. Um. This is what's happening for me. Can you help me? Uh, and that was a mistake. I got through it. I managed to, to reset myself a little bit, but I think it would have been much more helpful if I got up and said to my colleague, there's two of us, two vets working and then three, three nurses and support staff and that to say, Hey, I'm actually really struggling. Um, can I, can I tap out for 10 minutes or can you take this next consult or just talk me through or just give me a hug probably would have gone a hell of a long way and I have done that in the in the past under different situations but no it doesn't always come naturally to me I definitely still have the the shield up right the mask um I think it's easier for me in the post game analysis To do it and getting easier because of what I do I I share and I get feedback from people that it helps so then i'm motivated to share more um i'm definitely better at it now than I am when I was a youngster. I think Just as you get older with age you get more comfortable you realize that you don't have to be bulletproof. And so definitely when I was a 20 something year old young male, do you want to look tough? So there's no ways you're going to cry in front of your colleagues or, or be vulnerable in any way, shape or form. And I'm much more comfortable. I think having kids helps you to get a little bit softer with, with time. And then it's a practice to some extent I have in the last 10 years or so, um, through. curiosity and desire to be better at life, gotten into stuff like mindfulness and meditation and stuff like that. And I think that's probably the first step is self awareness to recognize in the moment a, you can't do anything about it if you don't realize what's happening, because you get that amygdala hijack, your body's in that fight and flight and you're like, I'm dying. You know, this is the end of the world. And then to have the self awareness to stand up on the balcony and go, Oh, that's happening. This isn't entirely true that you are dying and this is to be able to analyze and then think logically and go, Oh, maybe I should ask for help. That'd be a natural next step instead of just completely going head down and possibly crying and storming out the building and quitting your job, which would be the worst case scenario. Yeah.

Amelia:

Yeah. Yeah. I think that is so valuable, what you share. It is powerful, just that awareness when you are able to label or observe what's happening. It's like that act alone helps you to kind of separate yourself a little bit from that situation and to start shifting out already. And I love that you mentioned curiosity, because I think that that is so huge of like in the moment we don't always do what we hope, but you can always afterwards pause and at least reflect and think, okay,

Hugh:

What the hell, what the hell happened there last night? What was that all about? Yeah. Hmm.

Amelia:

it's full of valuable information about what doesn't work. So then you can be thinking about what would and, I know you've shared, two things that helped you get through that a little bit. And you did say that recognition, and necessity. And so with that self awareness, you shared that meditating was one of the things that helped you to start becoming a little bit more self aware. And I'm curious for you, was that easy for you getting into meditating? Because I also meditate every day and really think it's important. However, it was so hard for me to

Hugh:

get It's definitely not easy. I say I meditate. I still, I was about to say I suck at it. And the one thing I keep learning over and over is there's no such thing as sucking at meditation. It's not a competition, right? It's not. There's no prize for the best meditator. Uh,

Amelia:

I've had the same

Hugh:

thoughts. I think we all do it. And again, as, as high performers, you go, I want to do this well. Uh, it always cracks me up when I talk to people about meditation. And they say something like, Oh no, I can't meditate. I can't sit still for three minutes. I can't, I can't stop thinking in my head. I'm like, yeah, that's kind of why you meditate.. It's a bit like saying, Oh, I can't run. I'm really unfit. Like, yes, that's, that's why you run to get more fit. You can run better. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Exactly!

Amelia:

And I mean, I totally felt like I wasn't, I'm not the type to meditate. And then I realized, oh, that's me feeling

Hugh:

If you're not the type to meditate, you probably are exactly the one who should meditate.

Amelia:

Totally.

Hugh:

So no, to answer your question, not, not easy at all. Um, probably my, I'm more comfortable doing it because I've been actively going through phases of meditation and I'll come back to why phases for a good five years or so and trying to find the right tools that work for me that a lot of the, and I think a lot of people listening to this, if they are from the scientific sort of background, I certainly feel a bit uncomfortable if it gets a bit woo woo, if it's a little bit too incense and, you know, Buddhist bells and soft background music and it irritates me and then I can't get into it because I'm like this. When they do that classic meditation voice, we're going to now take it like, ah, so I, I found the, the Sam Harris app, the waking up app. He just talks to you like a normal person. He's not trying to, It's not, doesn't sound like he's trying to get you hypnotized or something like that. Uh, that, that helped a lot finding the right tool that I was comfortable with to see it as a, as an exercise and not some spiritual exercise necessarily, which I've got nothing against but I know a lot of people do, so that helped and then just trying to get into the habit of doing it to set a time to say, yes, 6 30, I get up, I have a coffee and 6 30, I meditate for 10 minutes is essential. But then I currently off the wagon completely. Again, it's, it's often as life pressure increases and I've got a hundred things on my to do list, uh, and the kids and the, that, and the, that, and the, that, then I feel like, Oh, I don't have 10 minutes to, I should just send a couple of emails, which is the opposite, right? It's, uh, it's exactly in those scenarios when you feel like things are falling apart, that you should probably take 10 minutes to ground yourself a little bit. And what typically happens in my pattern is I, I'm good at it. as in disciplined at doing it, things feel great. And then I sort of think, Oh, I'm fine. And I stopped doing it. And then things accumulate, accumulate, accumulate. And I get to the point of like, I am going crazy. Uh, What should I do? Let's start with the building blocks. All right, let's get some sleep. Let's get some exercise. Let's start meditating again. And then things sort of settle out again in time. So definitely a, I'm a slow learner, Amelia. I have to learn the same lessons over and over again.

Amelia:

uh, I can relate to that it has taken me so many times. I think you have to keep, I think I call it like the squiggly line effect there. You know, you're like doing it and then you fall off track, but then that helps you to remember how important it is. And then eventually maybe it's not such a steep squiggly line, but, you said it was Sam Harris Sam Harris. Yeah. Yeah. waking up is the app I will say the apps grown and grown where he's got other people doing guided meditation. There's actually a lot of resources on there. I saw in the last update his meditation sessions. It used to have a daily meditation session by Sam and they no longer have that, which is actually the one I really liked. So I will double check. I don't know if I'm not, not finding it in the right place, but I just liked his, his voice. There's certainly the, he still has, there's an introductory course of, of I think 20 days, uh, on, on the app with Sam Harris, which I'll actually offer when I fall off the wagon badly, I'll often just go back to the basics again and just restart it all again. Yeah. I love that. And it's, I like how you mentioned, like you do 10 minutes and I also like 10 to 12 minutes, so it doesn't have to be a huge amount of time, but I know like for me, that sounded way too long. Like I couldn't get into it until I was like, okay, just for one minute, I'm going to sit down and close my eyes. And I started calling it a brain vacation and that made it more appealing of just like one minute where I literally don't have to think and.

Hugh:

Don't have to think but inevitably will think and I think that's a big stumbling block for a lot of people which is again why I like the Sam Harris approach. It's a more scientific approach and he was very clear to say the point is not that you're going to be without thought. Cause if, if that's your expectation, then you're going to be very disappointed because as soon as you sit down and go, okay, let me try and clear my mind, all the thoughts start coming in. And the point is to recognize that's literally what's happening to you all day. You are, you're living in your head instead of living in the moment because those thoughts just come and it's about learning to recognize that and go, yeah, there's a thought. And again, I'm talking like I'm full of wisdom. I'm not, I'm fully fully stuck in that pattern. Uh, but it helps a little bit if you recognize at least what's happening.

Amelia:

Yeah. Yes. I think that's so important to point out. You're never going to have just like a complete, or at least in my experience, you're not going to have a completely blank mind. And I know you shared that that was one thing in that moment that helped of just noticing the thoughts and Starting to question them and thinking like, okay, is that actually true and I think that can really help because it's so easy to get caught up in this narrative of this day is awful and nothing's going right. And then that doesn't really lead anywhere. Good.

Hugh:

Yeah. Have you heard about the, the Ant? A N T. The Ants, Automatic Negative Thoughts, I heard it in a podcast a while ago and then two nights ago I was reading a book, a kids book, to my six year old and it was about this. I love it when I read kids books that are based on psychology principles and trying to teach kids solid psychology. It's cognitive behavior therapy, it's CBT. Um, The Ants, Automatic Negative Thoughts. And you've got to kill the ants because what happens in your head is, something happens and the first thought that, and we understand negativity, bias, and all of that, but the first thing that comes to your head is going to be a negative thought, an automatic negative thought. And the kid's book did such a great job of, of clarifying it. It's, it's just obviously a story, it's a story about these kids who have a challenge and then they all say these negative things. Now I'm going to mess it up, but there's four or four or five ants. The one is the. All or nothing ant that says I should actually go get the book. All the, the all or nothing. And which is, which is always never, I never, I always suck at this. I clients always give me, and so there's the all or nothing. And there's the, there's the one, the blaming ant that always points at somebody else to say, well, that person does that it's you doing that. Uh, what are the other ants? Oh, it's going to kill me. I'll, I'll, I'll go find it. But anyway, the answer is. And this is the lesson of the book is to ask, is it true? And then you ask again, is it a hundred percent true? Cause you might ask it and say, is it true that clients suck? People suck. Yeah. Sometimes it's not untrue. Is it a hundred percent always true? No, definitely not. And then I have, this isn't in the kid's book, but in the, the, it's a fairly famous thing, but in the podcast version, there's a few follow up questions. And the one is, well, what, what happens with me if I believe that it's true? Yeah. And what happens if what if the opposite is true? What if it's the exactly opposite? So my wife never listens to me. Is that true? Sometimes. Is it always true? Probably not. What if my wife always listened to me? How do I feel then? Oh yeah. Heaps better. Okay. Maybe I should believe that instead of that she never listens to me.

Amelia:

love that. And just that curiosity and like playing around with the thoughts I think is so powerful and that the ants in that book, it sounds similar. I did a program called, um, PQ and they talk about these saboteurs that we have, these voices that it's like the, the pleaser, the Perfectionist or, the hyper vigilant 1 and, 1 trick I love is they share when you do anything that's tuning into 1 sense so it could be just like rubbing your fingertips together and paying attention to the pressure needed to touch the ridges. When you do that, it helps to just silence those voices, because those voices come from a part of your brain called the default mode network. And when you do this, it, activates the task positive network, which is just more positive and mindful. And so I, I love little things like that, where you can notice those thoughts and then either like playing around and getting curious with like, what do you want them to be instead? Or maybe you just want to quiet those down. I think can be powerful. And I know you shared a few other things, with that recognition of, like, asking for help. You said, which I do think is worth highlighting. I'm just saying, like, hey, this case is bothering me or I'm having a tough I don't think we do enough of that

Hugh:

yeah, Yeah it's, it's again, it's that ego thing of, well, I have to look like I've, like I've got this. Which is, which is tough. It's tough to get over that and not feel that way. But it's important.

Amelia:

Yeah. And I think that's where hospitals or practices can really be working to create that psychological safety. That environment where that is more the norm and everyone just feels more comfortable having those kinds of conversations.

Hugh:

And it has to, I think it has to be modeled by The senior staff, the leaders, definitely if they can, if the leader's on the, on the floor, modeling that is definitely the best way. Because if you're the young vet, if you're the new grad and the boss always has his shit together or she's amazing and she never has shows any weakness, then you're going to think that, okay, well, this is how we operate around here. I can't possibly show any, any vulnerability. Whereas if the boss comes in and says, yeah, Hey guys, just to let you know. Kids are driving me nuts. I have a bad night's sleep. I'm not gonna take it out on you. But if I'm not myself, that's why. Then I think it becomes okay to be the same. And it doesn't mean I'm very cautious to say, take your shit to work with you. Because I don't think that's right. You are we are professionals. Let's make no mistake. We can't just walk around a crying mess all day. Because we've had a bad night's sleep or something like that. It is your responsibility as a professional to show up as the best version of yourself, but you don't have to pretend that everything's fine when it's not. You can come in and speak to your team and say, I am, I'm at 50 percent today. I'm going to do my best, but be gentle. I'm fragile.

Amelia:

Yes. Yeah. I think those are such important points. I love that you point out that that really, it makes it so much easier and safer for everyone if the leaders are being honest about that, but that also does lead into the second thing that you shared that helped you to kind of get through that and you were talking about necessity and balancing that narrative of, of self kindness, but also having that tougher voice that day of like, you are the adult, the adult in the room, like stop whining, put your big boy

Hugh:

Yeah. Yeah. It's a fine balance, right? You don't want to be mean to yourself, but the reality is you've got to get through life. All right. That that's my thoughts about it. That this, that you've signed up for the job, you know, it's tough. So find ways to do it, without destroying yourself in the process.

Amelia:

Yeah. And I I think it's, an important thing to dive into because as vets, we are very good at being very hard on ourselves. And so I do think that compassion is important, but I think there's a way for that tough love to be coming from a place of self compassion too like, I know one thing for me that has helped so much is increasing my tolerance to feel uncomfortable. And as long as it's periods of that, where I can feel discomfort or feel overwhelmed and know that I'm going to be okay. And then afterwards know that I'm going to take care of myself and help myself to recover from that. I think that has helped me to be so much more resilient and stronger versus when we are just living in a state of pushing ourself or not really honoring what we need, then I think that can lead us to burnout. I'm curious your thoughts.

Hugh:

I agree. It's, it's tricky, right? To find the boundary, to figure out what's, what is too much, like how much should I put up with, how much discomfort is, I want to say normal, is there normal? Uh, cause I think sometimes Through all the self help stuff out there and what we see out in the world, there's an expectation that at some point things should be easy. At some point I want to get to a place where it's no longer a struggle. And I, I think that's a mistake. It never gets, it gets easier and you'll go through, but if it's too easy, you're going to be unstimulated and bored. And that's, that's a whole new problem in itself. So there's gotta be some friction to show you, but you could definitely be too far. So something I, I don't have the answer for, but then I think about a lot is, let's talk about veterinary science. At what point do you go, okay, maybe this is not for me. Maybe my genetic makeup or psychological makeup or something is not suited for this particular role in veterinary science for a clinical, you know, maybe I'm not, I'm not an emergency vet, or I'm not a a GP vet, and to some extent that's where I am at. I could be wise and resilient to do all these things with a definite amount of hours per week. I know, I think a very large part of my first 10 years of misery as I talk about it was just too much of. So maybe I have the tools to deal with it, but not for 50 hours a week. It doesn't give me enough downtime. It doesn't give me enough recovery time. So I think learning, getting to know myself and my personality and my abilities and my coping skills. Yes, they're there, just not at that level. Uh, and so at what point do you go, all right, yes, the problem is actually the workplace that I'm in, or the work that I'm doing. And it's not to say there's something inherently wrong with that job, but maybe I'm ill suited to this role. Versus, I could get there, but I'll just need to work on my resilience, get some skills going. I think it's probably a lot of it comes down to desire. How badly do you want to do that job? I feel really strongly. I love the job. I love the team. I think the work's really important. And I want to be here, but I find it tough. And then I think it's committing to working on skills to be able to fit within that environment versus I just, I don't want to go anymore. The, as you say, pushing towards that burnout zone where you go, well, I've I'm trying, I'm doing all my things. meditating, I'm doing all this stuff and I still hate it, which I think is common. I think people listen to conversations like this and go, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. It's me. I'm, I'm going to get better. I'm going to meditate. Uh, it's my fault. It's my fault. And then they're disappointed when things don't get easy and then feel there's something wrong with them. But I think that's okay as well. At some point you say, maybe it's not for me

Amelia:

That can take so much exploring, right? And I do think in order to start finding what boundaries or environments people need, that's where I find being aware of nervous system states can be so helpful because really I see burnout is like, the last state that we have that like freeze and shut down where we feel just hopeless, depressed, no energy, no motivation, but before that comes the fight or flight. And so it's like, when we start to notice, okay, at the end of the season, day. I am feeling really irritable like every day. If that's happening, or having a short fuse. Okay. Kind of like you talked about, like pausing after those days and reflecting to figure out what was it? Are there things that I can change or is this just the environment that I'm in? And I think even within clinical, Practice. It's exciting how many opportunities there are now, you know, like you could do mobile or you can just see appointments. And so I think outside of clinical practice, there are so many opportunities as well. But I think that both increasing self awareness and just starting to learn what do you need to protect yourself or to support yourself? And also I found getting clear on core values and understanding what really at the root is so important to you and really helps to light you up That can be a really nice guiding light to finding the path in vet med that is fulfilling.

Hugh:

I like that. That's a very valid point. You know, the, that being specific about what is causing it as well.

Amelia:

Yeah

Hugh:

And as you say, it's understanding your values. And I'm still learning, you know, it's been 20 something years and I'm still, every now and again I'll have a lightbulb moment of, Oh, that's actually what stresses me out. It's not this, but it's that underlying thing. That's what causes the anxiety. What can I do about that? And the what can you do about that? You're absolutely right with the increased work flexibility compared to when I qualified. That was the job. You were a vet, you worked 40 to 50 hours a week. You did surgery, you did consults, you did this. If you didn't like it, you can't be a vet. Whereas now you can be a clinical vet without doing surgery or just doing that or doing that. You can find pathways. And I think it's so important to identify the things that, if I say I don't like work, be specific. What's the quote? I forget who said this, but, um, consult your resentment. If you resent something, if you hate it, sit with it and go, why, what exactly do I hate about this? If I say I don't like being a vet, what, what exactly? Cause there's surely there's some things that you do like. And then once you identify those things to go two options, either can I eliminate it? If I, if I don't think I'm going to get any better at this, is it possible to eliminate or at least reduce that stressor or get really good at it. I find that's a very good strategy to say, well, I hate dentistry. Uh, I, I don't do dentistry. I'm an emergency vet, but just as an example, but I can't get away from it. So let me get shit hot at it. And I know several people who've done that. And then that becomes their thing. The thing that they used to hate now, because I hate client interactions. Clients really stress me out. All right, well, let me do courses. I'm going to go do a communications course, a conflict resolution book, read, dive deep on it and make it your superpower. And then suddenly you go, well, this. It's like a sense of release to go. This thing that used to stress me so much is now, that's my thing. I can teach people about it.

Amelia:

Yes. So much. Yes. Yeah. It's like when you are in that survival mode, your brain just wants to make these big generalizations, right? But then when you do get really specific, then you have options. You get to decide what you want to do. And I find like with my clients, they'll say, well, I don't know. I just was dreading every day or like always wanting to leave and feeling overwhelmed, but like, I don't know what it was, but when we really dive into it, they have lots of very specific things that we can change, and I think that's so true of like when you allow yourself to notice where you're maybe feeling insecure or like you don't know what you're doing and you just choose to get more education in that area that can become your superpower. So I think that's so

Hugh:

So, how do you help your clients find those things? If they say to you, I don't know, I just anxious at work. Do you, is it just a conversation or do you have exercises or how do you help somebody get to the bottom of what's the source of your pain? I

Amelia:

So there are lots of ways, but one way would be like, okay, we'll take me to one of those days, walk me through like what was happening and we'll just start looking for really specific things and they'll say, you know, I was really overscheduled, or like I had to work through lunch or something and we'll dig through like, well, okay, why did that happen? And I'll always try to get them back to a memory of when that actually happened because then we can explore it. And we combine that with really understanding nervous system states too. And so while we're working together, at the end of the day, if they're noticing, okay, I'm in fight mode, I have a really short fuse. Or like on the weekends, if they're in flight mode and they're like, I know that I should rest, but also I'm feeling like I have to do a million chores and I can't rest. And I'm really struggling, then that's really valuable information. And we go back and just get really curious about what specifically led to that and what. What needs to happen to change iT.

Hugh:

like that. That's pretty cool.

Amelia:

Thanks. So I loved how you also shared that you have a bunch of things that, you know, does help to set you up for success and do you want to share them? I have a list here

Hugh:

You might have to help me, but I can go through it.

Amelia:

Yeah.

Hugh:

a. I don't think it's the same post. It was another one I wrote about. It's an attitude shift to, to go, you can handle this like a professional, figure out what works for you and what's going to give you your best chance of success. So I used an example of, I imagine if you are an Olympic athlete or a serious level athlete, there are things that you're not going to do right. It is not, and I'm not even talking about just before race day, obviously before race day, that's a whole different level, but if I know I'm training 100 meters sprints tomorrow morning. at 10 o'clock. I know it's going to be hard. That's what I've signed up for. So the night before, I'm not going to go out drinking. I'm not going to have a late night. There's a bunch of things that, you know, I probably have a very specific mattress that I sleep on and I know the pillow that's going to give me the best sleep because my body is, it has to be performance ready the next day because I am a hundred meter sprinter.

Amelia:

Mm sometimes

Hugh:

we're a bit a lot of people, not just vets, but we're a bit sloppy with that to go, yeah, I can still watch Netflix until one in the morning. and eat rubbish food and not take care of myself. And then I think, Oh, work's really hard. Work really sucked today. Yeah. Kind of not helping, right? Don't make a hard thing harder by doing, by not doing the right things. So figure out your, your keystones, or they talk about the dominoes that give you the best chance of success. So for me, I know that I need to sleep I know some people who cope well with less sleep. I've learned over time. I, I do not, uh, things

Amelia:

Mm.

Hugh:

even just emotionally, I'm not even talking about mental acuity or stuff. I know that I get triggered much faster. I feel despair very quickly. If I'm ever just a little bit tired about little things.

Amelia:

I'm the same.

Hugh:

I wish it wasn't that way. It helps recognizing that, by the way. Very often, if I feel that despair and I, one of those ants comes up and says, I hate my life, everything is terrible. To stop and go, mm mm. First question, are you underslept? Yeah, right. Okay, maybe consult your resentment again tomorrow. See if you still feel the same after a good night's sleep. But very often that's the solution right there.

Amelia:

yeah. Um,

Hugh:

so my building blocks are definitely sleep. Uh, exercise is is my drug. Uh, I'm not an exercise fanatic, but I do go to sleep. I noticed it like a couple of weeks ago. I was traveling and couldn't get to do exercise. I'm not talking crazy exercise, just some sort of movement. I feel that lack of dopamine and feel good hormones acutely makes a big difference. And it's a feedback loop because the lack of exercise feeds back into my sleep. I sleep better when I've exercised. So there we go. Those are probably the two main, main, main things. Um, Not trying to do everything. That's probably my big Achilles heel because of the podcast and the newsletter and I've got all these things that I really care passionately about. Yeah. And I, and I do it because I like it. Um, but then I, I sometimes get, you think you could do it all and without giving myself just a little bit of headspace. So for example, I said, if I, so my work shift starts at 3 p. m. It's a late afternoon into the evening shift. And if I fill my morning with other work, so I wake up at six and I start doing podcast work and I write this and I do this and I then have lunch and go straight to work. It's going to be a much harder shift, right? I've spent a lot of my resilience and cognitive ability on my day leading up to the shift. So on a good day, I'll make sure that I've slept well the night before. Um, Ideally meditate in the morning to ground myself a little bit. Ideally do some exercise before the shift. And then ideally give myself at least an hour or two of vegging. So that could be watching TV. Then when that's, for example, where it's fine to watch a bit of Netflix for an hour or two or going for a walk with the dogs or something. And these things are simple when that's the, that's the irony of all these things we talk about and we learn all the struggles that people have in life. The answers are actually pretty simple. Pretty obvious for the vast majority, clearly. I mean, there's, there's definitely situations and conditions and things that make it a whole different ball game where it's not that simplistic. But if I do that, I'm set up as this, I could take and throw stuff at me at work all day long. I have evidence that I can get through a tough day because I've been doing it for 20 years. I know that I can get through stuff. So that I could do it at least knowing that if that doesn't happen and the day's going badly. That it's not because I hate being a vet or that my workplace sucks or it's my boss's fault or something to at least say, well, what's my responsibility and what I'm experiencing. The shift's going really badly. I'm struggling. These clients, clients are driving me nuts or these cases I'm completely overwhelmed. And then stopping and going, well, because you get that, that almost, usually it's not panic. The panic was quite extreme for me. Normally I get angry. I'm like, this work

Amelia:

place sucks. Yeah. Mm. Yeah,

Hugh:

They should schedule more nurses out to help me. I've had, I get really angry at the computer system sucks. I'm so furious. And then just stop and recognize. Yeah. Well, what was your responsibility in this? Hmm. Yeah. It was your choice to go to bed late last night and not do all these things that you know, is important. So suck it up, suck it up big boy. Next time, next time, try a bit harder. And if I, if I then go, no, I've done everything right. Uh, my, my part is clean. Uh, and this really does suck. This is really too much. Then I've got evidence to go to my manager and say, Hey, that's the third shift in a row where we completely under the pump. Um, I couldn't find an S I, I really tried, but it's, we need to talk about something. And if that doesn't get fixed, then that's a scenario where I go, or maybe this workplace isn't for me. Maybe I need to go find somewhere that is reasonable.

Amelia:

yeah, everything you just shared is so important, I think, like, because they are simple, right? Like, because you're talking about basic necessities that our body needs. And I think that that is. Um, a real challenge in our profession right now where when it comes to burnout, there's so much talk about mental health and we really are still largely ignoring the physical health component. And that's such a disservice because they're, they're not separate really like physical and mental health are so connected. And I think that it is important that we start to honor what basic necessities are key for us to be able to show up to our shift with a brain that is ready to work and focus because we are making sometimes life threatening decisions and we are, we have a lot of responsibility. And so I really liked it when you were talking about thinking about our work as if we were an elite athlete. And I think that self awareness is so important of understanding. Okay. How much sleep do I need? And looking at like, how is the food that I'm eating influencing the way that I feel and my ability to focus and also like giving my brain a break before the shift so that I'm ready to be making these decisions. I think that that's something that right now our profession sometimes is a little bit more of self sacrifice or even proud of like, Oh, I haven't slept and I can still do this and, and if you look at the food that's available at the hospital, so often it's. It's just not setting us up for success. And I think the more we can start to really redefine what professional looks like and means in vet med. I think that will really help to set us up for a more sustainable future because instead of that feeling guilty for sticking up for boundaries or that self sacrificing instead, if we can say, no, I, I know I need to get this sleep or I know I need to eat right now, block off a little time because that's really important for me to be able to practice medicine in a way that feels good. I think that that would be really powerful in our profession and as a way for practices to really stand out right now, if they can be proactive of even having healthy food. I know you mentioned like you have a really good high protein breakfast and you pack healthy snacks because otherwise the alternative is not great. And I know, you know the power of food being able to

Hugh:

focuS. Yeah. And I'm not great at that, but I know what I'm, put it this way. I know what I'm signing up for when I go for the box of chocolates or the bag of chips.

Amelia:

Yeah. And that's huge.

Hugh:

And look, it's, it's tough what we talk about because life is also life. Life happens and, you know, you have responsibilities and you have short term desires. I, sometimes I do want to watch a movie. Sometimes There'll be people listening to this who might be a single mom or something like that. And it means you can't have this perfect plan to go into the shifts. And that's, it's good to just acknowledge that then as well to say, well, to say, yes, I find it really hard. And these are probably reasons why, and again, at least being able to say it's not because there's something wrong with me, or it's not because the workplace sucks or something. I'm just in a place right now that makes it really hard for me to set myself up for success. And then. Everybody talks about being kind to yourself, but saying that that's okay. I'm doing my best. What are the things that are important? What are the ones that I can at least do? Because even my, I have my perfect schedule, almost never does it work out like that. It is that life does happen. So I, I almost never tick all those boxes, but I try and identify the keystones, the sleep and the exercise and try and be very inflexible about sacrificing that. Or if I sacrifice one of those, making sure it's a very good reason. And, and the reason can be, I mean, sometimes I want to watch a movie with my wife and I go, yep, tomorrow shifts going to be a little bit tougher, but I'm consciously making this decision. It's about being conscious about it and not just sort of drifting, being a leaf in the stream. And then I'm the victim of my circumstances. So no, I'm, I'm choosing, I'm going to have a late night. It's fine. I I'm aware of it. This is the price I'm going to pay for it, but it's worth it for this instance and next week I'll be better.

Amelia:

Absolutely. I think that self awareness is huge. I like to think of it as like a, a stress balloon that we have. And so it's like thinking about how are you starting work? And so if you didn't get a lot of sleep, then maybe that's already filling up your stress balloon a little bit, which is going to make you closer to feeling like you're ready to pop at work. But maybe you can at least know what food is going to help to give you a little bit more stable energy, so you're not also hangry and sleep deprived. And

Hugh:

what did I talk about? Had, I get had. That's not hangry. I get hungry, sad.

Amelia:

uh, Yeah, food really influences how we feel. With the support that I do. It is always getting curious about, okay, because there can be this mindset that healthy can be harder. And I think we are in a world where it

Hugh:

Oh yeah. It's more convenient to be

Amelia:

to be unhealthy.

Hugh:

for sure.

Amelia:

Yeah. And so looking at like, well, okay, what is your lifestyle? You know, you talked about like that single mom, how can we make it as convenient as possible or like what kinds of meals are really doable for finances really, and with the time that you do have so that you can still be supporting yourself in a way that feels good, especially during a time when maybe optimal sleep is just not going to happen.

Hugh:

exactly. Right. And then asking for help, like having somebody, this is hard. This stuff's hard to do by yourself. Um, so even if it means having somebody like Amelia to help you with a little bit of, I always struggle with this word accountability. Thank you. I have a mental block against the word accountability. I can never think of some sort of accountability to say, Hey, Amelia, I've had a tough week and then somebody to just help motivate you to keep going. Cause it's very easy if you're fighting the battle by yourself all the time to just go, Oh, I give up. I can't, can't do this anymore.

Amelia:

Yeah, oh, so true. I think it can be so nice just to be able to share that experience and to have some support or to talk through it, I think can be so powerful.

I'm pausing this conversation for a moment in case you're listening to this thinking. Wow. Yeah. It would be really nice to not be doing all of this alone and to have a safe, welcoming space where I can explore and talk about these feelings of self doubt and overwhelm that I've been silently living with and to have some support, understanding how your brain and nervous system work and getting clear on the values, basic necessities and environment you need in order to feel resilient and really thrive in an outside of vet med.. If you're realizing it would be really nice to not be pressuring yourself to be figuring it out all on your own, then my three and six month coaching programs are designed to support you with exactly that. You'll have access to weekly group coaching calls, a community forum where you can ask questions and receive support anytime and self-paced programs, including the game changer, which is race approved for eight hours of CE. Even if you spend just 10 minutes a day listening to one of the little lessons or showing up in the community forum just to share that you're having a hard day and looking for support and guidance, you're going to experience huge change. You can find links to learn more in the show notes or better yet just reach out to me by email or on social media. Let me know, Hey, this podcast episode really resonated so that we can start a conversation to see which program or resource is best for you.

Amelia:

A couple other things you mentioned one was be prepared to disappoint others. And I think that that was a really important thing to mention because that is kind of a necessity. I think so many of us are people pleasers and we like to have everybody happy with us. Of course, but, there does come that point where we have to be putting our oxygen mask on first. Right. And like, sometimes there is that limit of the number of clients you can see or needing to, as you said, like do a workout. I'm curious. Yeah. What has helped you

Hugh:

I don't know.

Amelia:

with that?

Hugh:

I think I'm naturally fairly good at that. Which sometimes worries me. Am I, am I inherently selfish? Um, no, I, I think it's being clear about the, the long term benefits. I think about this obviously because of what I do, I think about these things and I write about it and, but I understand the long term repercussions of short term self sacrifice. So I could justify it to myself when I have to say no, when I have to do that. Probably the biggest struggle for me, I don't struggle that much anymore doing it professionally. You know, if the roster person asks me for an extra shift, I'll try to help when I can, but I've stopped feeling guilty about not saying yes. And again, I think that's age and confidence. To be honest, when I was 25, it's much harder to say, and maybe that's also right. Maybe when you're 25 or 26 and new in the business, well, maybe a little bit of self sacrifice is not unreasonable. If you have the capacity, right? If you have, I feel like, look, I've done this for a long time. I've done my bit. I'm okay to say, I don't feel guilty at all to say, no, I can't do the extra shift because I'm going to some social event. And I understand that that's really important for me because without that I'm going to get really grumpy. I'm going to start resenting work and I'll quit. Eventually I'll quit. If it doesn't, that's Also, it helps that I ran my own practice for 10 years and it was my problem to get shifts filled. So I'm like, no, that was my problem for 10 years. Now it's your problem. It's not my problem, which is a bit selfish. It's a bit of a bit of a dickhead attitude, but it certainly helps. But the thing that I struggle the most with is, is family really disappointing my wife. Can I do this chore? Um, no, I've got to go in gym. And I know she's pissed off about it. I could tell that she's, she's lovely about it. She doesn't say anything, but I know that she's disappointed that she wishes I could help her. And it does just take a little bit of more to myself than to her of saying, no, if I don't exercise, I know what's going to happen. I'm going to get grumpy. I'm going to be a worse husband. I'm going to be a worse dad and work's going to suffer. So it is just what I have to do. And she gets it. We've talked about it enough. Um,

Amelia:

Mm.

Hugh:

So yes, that's, it's, it's just being thoughtful of being very clear about it. What are the costs and what are the benefits and measuring the cost benefit and making the right decision that the one that thinks right, not necessarily feels right, because it definitely feels easier in the moment to say yes, yes, okay, I'll do that. Yeah.

Amelia:

Yeah. And it comes back to that self awareness again, right? Like, the more that you know what you need, and I think that it can be, it is so challenging in those relationships. And I'm sure when you have kids as well, I know my husband and I have found one thing that was helpful. I think it came from Brene Brown, but she talks about checking in and sharing, where you're at, on a scale of one to a hundred. And so if you're both at like 10%, then just being able to share that and then coming up with a plan of like, well, okay, how are we going to get through this day? If like neither of us really has much in the tank versus if one is like at a hundred percent and the other is at 10%, then that

Hugh:

I love that. I listened to that conversation as well. I think it was a Brené Brown, Tim Ferriss podcast episode. and what I like about that, because when I talk about these things, it sounds like I'm rigid about it. So I have to do my workout now. I can't help ever. That's not true. I will base it on that. Even if we don't explicitly say it, I know when my wife's at 10 percent and not at a hundred percent. So if, so some days I will sacrifice. So like I said earlier, I will sacrifice the workout. I'll go, Ooh, I'm feeling pretty good. I could definitely survive without my workout for a couple of days and still be fine at work. And I can see that she's at her end. So yes, today I will give up a couple of those things and I will go mow the lawn or cook dinner or something like that. So having your boundaries, but also not having completely rigid boundaries, because then you, then you do risk becoming a bit of an a hole.

Amelia:

Yeah.

Hugh:

the same thing that, that the percentage thing works really well at work. And I think verbally saying it to your team members can work. It's coming, it comes back to what we started about that being a little bit vulnerable at work, starting a shift saying, Hey dude, this is happening for me. You don't have to share the details, but just saying, I'm at a 20 percent today. How are you feeling? And obviously it has to change. You can't be at 20 percent every day and give your colleague all the tough consoles, but it might mean I don't think I can handle euthanasia today or a really challenging emergency case. I can do it if I have to, but if you are up for it, can you take those? And then next time we swap around or something like that, having that sort of conversation of saying, well, no, we both 80%, we're going to have a killer day today. Let's, let's knock this out the park.

Amelia:

Yeah. Having that flexibility and again the self awareness, I think it's so huge because it can be easy to want to make these rules. Like I'm more on the GP side and so to be like, well, okay, we're only going to have like this number of walk ins a day. But it. It depends, right? Like there are some days when maybe you're happy to be taking that case that walks in right before close or, you know, a ton of walk ins because you walked in with enough sleep and a good breakfast and you're ready to go versus some days maybe you, yeah, are at 30 percent and it's going to be a different number of cases that you have the capacity to deal with. So I think that could be so powerful if practices can be more proactive and in creating an environment and just having that kind of dialogue, and maybe having leaders really starting that

Hugh:

Yeah, but it's up to the individuals as well. It helps a lot if it comes from leadership, but a, anybody can be a leader in a certain aspect of work. So if you're listening to this and going, yeah, I wish my boss did that. Don't wait for your boss to do it. You start to talk to your colleagues and say, Hey, I heard this thing on Amelia's podcast. I think it's great idea. Let's start it. Or talk, go to the boss, be, be the leader in this thing that you care about.

Amelia:

Yeah, yes, I think that is so important to not feel stuck and to not just wish someone else would and that's where I find going back to I think we really need to have a fear free approach in vet med of recognizing the stress response in people. Because that really helps us to understand. Like if you see a colleague who suddenly is just getting frustrated at everything, you know, that they're in that fight stress response. And that's really helpful information to you, Or if someone's seeming lazy, who normally is more proactive, I think being able to just recognize those patterns can help us all to work together too.

Hugh:

Cool.

If you love the idea of starting to have these kinds of conversations with your hospital, or you want to start leading by example, I have two free resources to help make that happen. My"beat the burnout. What we should have learned in vet school" resource includes four videos. It's race approved for four hours of CE. And it shares simple things that you and your hospital can start doing in order to create an environment where it's convenient to thrive instead of being in survival mode. You can watch these on your own, or you can watch it together as a hospital. It's a great way to start really productive conversations. And as vets we really love data, right. And so that's why I've also created a free workplace satisfaction and wellbeing survey. Also called the unicorn vet hospital survey. It's designed to make it easier for vet practices to thrive and to be a unicorn the surveys, a free, quick, and easy way to give employees a safe, confidential way to provide honest feedback and to feel heard while identifying strengths and areas for improvement or red flags in order to be a positive, resilient, and fully staffed practice. Employees don't want to leave their job and practice owners and leadership don't want to have unexpected surprises where suddenly they're understaffed. But as we're talking about today, vets are good at looking fine on the outside and feeling overwhelmed on the inside. For example, one hospital that recently participated discovered that almost half of their employees agreed that they felt depressed. And two out of three agreed that they felt burned out. Now that they have that baseline and are aware of it. They can be proactive in changing it. And in order to identify what changes and initiatives are truly effective or when you need to troubleshoot, you have the option to repeat the survey after making a change, for example, using some of the tips in the beat, the burnout resource. With the survey the idea is that you're already a unicorn and you deserve recognition, or you're now empowered with the insight to become a unicorn. Links to learn more in the show notes or visit my website, www.life boosts.today..

Amelia:

I really appreciate your time. I want to be respectful of it. So I have just a couple questions. One that I like to ask everybody is when do you feel most alive?

Hugh:

Hmm. Great question. I surf, so definitely not much beats a good surf. When you're out in the ocean on a great day, the waves are just right and you're getting waves. That would be very high on my list of when I feel most alive. Many things outdoors. Uh, yeah, a good run outdoors out in nature definitely does a lot for, for the spirit, for feeling alive. And In terms of what I do for a living, if I've written something or I've made a podcast and I'm finished with it and I'm publishing it, that moment of going, I'm proud of that it's going out in the world, that's a big buzz. I love that as well.

Amelia:

Those are great ones. Yeah, I can relate to that And I know I recently went to Bali and I know that's one of your favorite places. So I highly recommend doing that sunrise, Mount Batur hike Okay.

Hugh:

We're going, we're going back. We've booked flights last week. We're going back in January. So thank you. I will definitely go do it.

Amelia:

Amazing. Awesome. All right. And finally, where can people find you? You have so many great resources. And is there anything else that you want to share?

Hugh:

Um, probably the central place to where most of it leads out of is just thevetvault.Com our central website. And there's links to the newsletter and there's links to the clinical podcasts. So I'll do the continuing education podcast where I speak to specialists, that stuff that you talk about. Uh, but yeah, everything sort of leads out from there. If you wanna go straight to clinical podcast, if you just want CPD, then VVN, so vet vault network dot supercast.com(vvn.supercast.com) is the website. But again, you'll find that link on our central website. Or find us on the socials. Instagram is, we're pretty active on Instagram as well. Just@vetvault on Instagram.

Amelia:

Awesome. Yep. And I'll link to all of that in the show

Hugh:

notes Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Amelia:

Thank you for everything that you've shared and for your time. It was such a treat having you here today.

Hugh:

It was an absolute pleasure chatting to you. I, as you know, I like to talk so I could do this for hours and hours and you're a fantastic host. I have to say, I, uh, I felt super comfortable and I love listening to you speak. So well done and thank you for what you're doing as well. We're all pulling in the same direction, right? We want the same things for, for our profession and for the humans in our profession. So anybody who's, who's doing the same thing, just much gratitude. I really appreciate it.

Amelia:

thank you, I'm grateful to connect with people like you.

Hugh:

Awesome.

I hope you enjoyed today's recap. We covered a lot. So let's do a quick recap. Remember it always comes down to the three CS, compassion, curiosity, and connection. Anytime you're feeling overwhelmed or stuck, if you turn to those three things, it will always help you to move forward in a way that feels better. So compassion. Remembering that you are not a machine and that's okay. We all have basic needs and emotions. And when you're feeling overwhelmed, that doesn't mean that you're weak or flawed. It's just really valuable information that something isn't working for you. And instead of judging herself, think about why that's understandable. And it's okay to have different needs on different days, because that's just the reality of how our bodies work. And the more that we can normalize and talk about this in vet med, the more, we can all really work together to support one another. And then curiosity. You heard us talk about self-awareness so many times in this episode, and that truly makes all the difference when it comes to sustainable health and success in and outside of vet med. So when you have a tough day pause and look back to reflect, was there a basic necessity, like sleep or nourishing food that was missing? Were there stressors outside of work that had already filled up your stress balloon before you even got to work. And what specifically contributed to the day feeling overwhelming. And what can you do to change that in the future? The more, you understand what you need in order to practice medicine in a way that feels good, the easier it will be to feel confident speaking up for the boundaries that you need to protect your energy and sanity. And finally connection. Doesn't it feel like such a huge relief when you hear someone who you really look up to and respect talking about having the same feelings of overwhelm that you do sometimes? The more that we're brave enough to let our guard down and to let our colleagues, friends and family know when we're feeling overwhelmed, the more we can support one another. Connection is such a great way of helping your nervous system to feel safe. And if you'd like support making these changes and to join a community of others creating these same changes, send me an email or reach out on Instagram and let's chat about if one of my programs is right for you. So moving forward, what's one thing you're going to take away from this episode that you can focus on this week? That's how change happens. You've got this. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with someone who you think could benefit. And if you're enjoying this podcast, it would mean so much to me If you would take the time to leave a review so that others can find me. And as I thank you if you leave a review, send me an email, letting me know, and I'll send you a free guided meditation for mental rehearsal. So that is exactly what elite athletes, executives, incredible surgeons all use it's a scientifically proven way to improve performance. And the reason this works so well is because when you are mentally rehearsing, the same area of your brain is lighting up as if you were actually doing it. And so it's a safe and effective way to be preparing and practicing and improving your skills for when you're actually living it in the moment. Send me an email at amelia@lifeboost.Today if you leave a review and i can't wait to share that with you cheers your inevitable health happiness and success