Life Boost with Amelia

Ep. 75 | Breaking Out of the Black and White Box and Embracing the Color In Vet Med with Dr. Eve Harrison

• Amelia Knight Pinkston • Season 2 • Episode 75

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In this episode, Dr. Eve Harrison joins the discussion to explore critical issues in veterinary medicine, particularly the black-and-white mindset and hierarchical thinking that contribute to anxiety, depression, and burnout in the profession. Dr. Eve shares her powerful Instagram post that sparked the conversation and discusses how opening a mobile veterinary practice allowed her to break free from clinical hierarchies and to embrace a more holistic approach where she's able to practice medicine and connect with her clients in a way that feels fulfilling. The conversation delves into the importance of authenticity, vulnerability, nervous system regulation, and embracing the color and endless possibilities in veterinary medicine, emphasizing the need to reconnect with oneself to provide better care for patients and clients. Towards the end of the episode, they discuss how being open to exploring things like spirituality, psilocybin ceremonies, and hypnosis have helped them to release old black and white thought patterns. The episode also highlights Dr. Eve's work in supporting veterinarians through her House Call Vet Academy and an upcoming virtual conference.

Resources mentioned by Dr. Eve:
The One & Only Original Free House Call & Mobile Vet Business Plan

House Call & Mobile Vet Virtual Conference coming up Feb 1 & 2, 2024: https://www.dreveharrison.com/the-house-call-mobile-vet-conference

The House Call Vet Academy - online on-demand CE course & community for house call vets: www.thehousecallvetacademy.com

House Call Vet Cafe Podcast
www.dreveharrison.com

Instagram: @The_House_Call_Vet_Academy

Life Boost with Amelia coaching programs and resources (RACE-approved!):

  • 6 Month Life Boost Mentorship program: https://www.lifeboost.today/mentorship
  • 3 month Game Changer program: https://www.lifeboost.today/gamechanger
  • Free Beat The Burnout resource: https://www.lifeboost.today/beatburnout
  • Instagram: @lifeboostwithamelia

I'm doing something fun for the month of December! If you listen to a podcast episode and then share it on social media and tag me (@lifeboostwithamelia), you'll be entered into a drawing at the end of the month for a chance to win a free 1 hour 1-on-1 coaching session with me. Two winners will be selected at the end of the month (you can also gift the session if you wish). Every share on social media counts as one entry. Fun, right? 

Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical, mental health, or professional advice. I am a certified health and life coach, not a licensed medical or mental health professional. Please consult with a healthcare provider before making any changes to your physical or mental health routines. If you are experiencing a crisis, seek help from a qualified professional or contact emergency services.

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To learn more about my approach and the programs and free resources available to support you, visit my website: www.lifeboost.today

I love to hear from you. You can always reach me at amelia@lifeboost.today.

Welcome to the Life Boost with Amelia podcast where we're changing the narrative around what true health and success look like. They should give you energy, not drain it. I'm your host, Dr. Amelia multi-passionate integrative health and life coach, entrepreneur, and recovered burnout veterinarian. Together, we'll explore the science behind how your brain and body work, including the unconscious mind while also connecting with what your heart needs in order to stand up to the norm of feeling stuck on a hamster wheel-working hard yet feeling exhausted and not where you want to be- and instead live a life that makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning and in love with who you see when you look in the mirror. The reality is if you do what everyone else is doing, you're not going to feel good. Let's break the norm. Hi friend. This conversation that I'm about to share with you with Dr. Eve Harrison was so much fun. And honestly, since recording it, I've been looking forward to sharing it with you. Before we get started, we do mention things like fight flight fawn and freeze and shut down modes. And if you're not super familiar with those terms, then I recommend checking out episode 73 because. I really dive into stress and trauma responses and how that's related to so many root issues in vet med and outside of it. And so I think you'll find that to be really eyeopening before or after listening to this episode. Dr. Eve Harrison is an integrative concierge house call veterinarian in LA. Her mobile practice has been through numerous seasons and iterations of itself, including being an acupuncture, only practice, a multi-doctor practice with an I H E exclusive component, wellness only, and finally a solo integrative concierge practice. She has a speaker writer, content creator, and the founder of the online CE course, the house call vet academy. Through the academy, she offers training, coaching, and consulting to help independent veterinarians nourish, not only their patients, but themselves by helping them to cultivate profitable and sustainable mobile practices of their own. She is also the founder of the annual house call and mobile vet virtual conference and host of the house call vet cafe podcast. Dr. Eves passions are creative entrepreneurship, veterinary practice management, sustainability for veterinarians, boundaries, authentic communication, and releasing people on systems who are not a good match for our practices or our lives. Outside of her work with animals and their humans, Eve is a semi-professional musician flutist, yogi, mushroom forger and certified compassion, fatigue, professional. Overall, she's just a really cool human so let's dive into the conversation.

amelia:

Hello and welcome, Dr. Eve. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Hi! Thank you so much for having me. I was really excited when you reached out and I've been loving our engagements on Instagram and your work, so I'm very honored.

amelia:

Yeah I think there's so much in alignment with our journeys. You recently had a awesome, post on Instagram that really just spoke to, I think one of the root issues that is really contributing to vet med not being sustainable, so much of the anxiety, depression, burnout, and really addressing that kind of black and white mindset and hierarchical way of thinking, and that really even goes beyond,vet med It's like in our world right now, with my clients and seeing how they're struggling with a healthy lifestyle

because of the rigid rules, they feel like they have to stick to I just the polarization in our world in general.

amelia:

I thought that this was such an important topic to really dive into and so I'm excited that you're here to dive in or just to lay a nice foundation you worded things so eloquently in your post and so I'd love to have you read that post if you're open to it and then we can dive in even more.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Awesome. Yeah I'm so honored. I feel so seen. And thank you for seeing that. This was like one of those posts that some people use the word channeling I don't I'm leaning more into my spirituality, but I'm playing with the idea. Maybe this was channeled. I don't know. It was just a very flow. Like in the moment, it was just poured right out of me. Actually after of all things, I spent a weekend with my very medical family and you can imagine our dinner conversation and some of the paradigms that are just assumed to be true in a medical family, like sisters, whatever it is. parents, all of that. And I was just like, ah, it's this it's infiltrated my family too. Damn it. And I just sat down and wrote this thing out. And I think it really spoke to what a lot of people feel. So I really appreciate that you saw it and engaged with it and felt that it was representative for other people. It felt intuitively to me that it would be, but you never really know. I'm like, this is what I feel is this going to speak to other people? And it seemed that it really did. I'd be really happy to read this post. I'm proud of it. I had the background music by Sylvia Black, I Put a Spell on You. I was like, oh, perfect.

amelia:

Love it- really set the vibe.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

It was trending music too. I was like, Oh, I can't believe my luck.

amelia:

Meant to be.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

The post said it started out something transformed when I opened my own mobile veterinary practice. That was the cover slide there. And then I said, this post might be a little out there today, but I wanted to share one huge transformation that happened when I opened my house call, vet practice. I stopped seeing the world as this weird clinicalized hierarchy experience with those quote unquote above me as this discerning eye of what success and clinical quote unquote correctness are, and I stopped seeing others as quote unquote below me, too. I started to shift from the old paradigm, which was a type of black and white thinking that alienates everyone and everything Who is not living in that same version of the vet med paradigm and ultimately alienates and burns out those who are living in it too. As doctors and veterinary professionals, we were trained that we exist within a medical hierarchy system and that quote unquote clinical opinion rules. And in turn, we start to see ourselves through that same lens, that same illusion where everyone and everything is our patient or our potential patient in a codependent world where we are solely tasked with fixing and correcting everything in that world and where everything goes through the lens of how we were trained, how we were taught to critique health, animal wellbeing, and especially to critique ourselves and others. When we're trained in this rigid clinical hierarchy of quote unquote right and quote unquote wrong ways to do things, everything must be fixed. And by us, no less, right? So it wasn't only when I became a house call vet that this matrix started to crack. It was seeing myself as a cog in the machine, to be validated by other cogs in the machine, to be criticized and judged by those same cogs, to be a criticizing cog towards other cogs too. All of that dissolved when I became a house call vet. I learned that not everything is a clinical situation to be fixed or to be assessed as right or wrong with implications for the verdict on my own worthiness. Life exists outside of the clinical mindset. There are shades of gray, and color, the paradigms of that hierarchy and pathologizing everything, including ourselves. It all just disappeared. And in parentheses, I said, pathology exists, of course, but not everything needs to be seen as pathology or as something needing to be fixed or corrected. So the thing is, we can step away from all of that, and it feels a million times better. You can feel the difference in your body and in your life. For me, the spell was broken by my own practice. Insert pumpkin emoji and witch emoji. Reference, I put a spell on you music in the post. Turns out we can be whole humans engaging in this world. We can remember all the things outside of the narrow corridor of how we were taught to live in vet school and in clinic life. I know these words sound like lunacy to those fully entrenched in the spell right now. It's all you've ever known. And I get it because I was there too. It's literally the same paradigm that makes us feel we're never good enough for our own profession. And yet we are the beating heart of that profession. We are the profession. We can decide how we want to think about it, how we want to offer it. How we want to relate to our patients and clients, how we want our lives to feel. We can get stuck in this black and white veterinary orthodoxy and paradigms, or we can break out of the spell, do it our own way, provide and thrive even more. I know you can do it. I'm here to walk alongside you as you reinvent what it means to be an animal doctor and own the parts of you that know how to care just right for the clients and patients that are just right for you. It's all you, looking into your own heart, knowing you're doing the right thing on the cosmic level, beyond the limitations of professional systems and hierarchies. Bust out of the box. You've got this. See you February 1st and 2nd, 2025 for our House Call and Mobile Vet virtual conference. Who's coming? That's post.. That was it.

amelia:

It's so good! There's so much gold in that one Instagram post, which is impressive. Yeah and I think that box summarizes it so well. It's really this cage that just gets us stuck. And it's Within the confines of that black versus white and when you do start to realize, oh, we can embrace the gray and even the color. That just opens this door to this cage. And that was definitely what I experienced in burnout too. And I think is keeping so much of us stuck. That duality, of If we think that something is right, or we are so driven to be right, then that wrong is also attached, and if we are putting so much weight on being right, then there's also equally that huge fear of being wrong

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Ugh, so well said. Yeah,

amelia:

thank you. And so I'm curious with your journey, like when did you start to be able to see that you were in that box or cage that, that you were looking at things in that black and white? Because it's really hard when you're inside of that box to see what's going on,

Dr. Eve Harrison:

it really is. Oh my gosh, I'm trying to find one point because I found myself in that box at multiple points in my career and I've had to get out of the box multiple times and I'm like, shit, I'm in the box again. It's like you have to relearn and relearn and each time you understand a little bit deeper how deep the box is that you keep falling into and I I guess I, I wanted to really agree hardcore with what you said about the more you want to be right and the more you want to do the right thing to me, that was like my personal mantra. I want to do the right thing. I want it's to some extent, it's being right with that sort of egotistical I want to know, and appear to know everything and be right about things. But to me, my version of it was like, I want to do the right thing in my heart. I want to do good.

amelia:

Absolutely, totally.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

that version of it, which seems a little bit less egotistical, it's still a bit tied to the ego that makes you it's, not even ego, but that duality, that polarization, like you were saying before we got on the call, but this right versus wrong it puts things into also types of boxes that just aren't aren't Really realistic for how we live our lives, let alone how we practice as doctors, which is, as we know, not only a science, but an art and is flexible, movable and the best vets meet the situation where it is. And there is no right, there is no wrong, right? There's general realms of what's gross incompetence or just really not giving a fuck about the patient or something, but we're not talking about that for a majority of us. Like the majority of us are like, really want to do the right thing. Some of us want to be seen as saying and knowing the right thing all the time, but a majority, I would say, it's I want to do the right thing, And, like you said that comes absolutely, unequivocally, unseparatable from the fact that if you don't do that thing, you are absolutely the worst person on the planet because you're doing the wrong thing, and you're suffering from how much that hurts because the core of your integrity of what you set out to do has been You failed, you can't have this concept of the ultimate right without the ultimate wrong and like falling into that ultimate wrong all the time,

amelia:

Absolutely, yeah. and that wrong will just chase you around as long as you're striving for that and

Dr. Eve Harrison:

I

amelia:

one,

Dr. Eve Harrison:

oh go ahead.

amelia:

one thing that's been really eye opening for me is to look at this from the lens of a nervous system perspective and understanding what was happening for me at that unconscious level, really. And realizing that I think the majority of us in veterinary medicine, I think vet med is selecting for signs of the flight trauma response and the fawn trauma response. It's like the flight is we have been rewarded for our entire lives for being right, really, like for getting the good grades so that we could get into vet school. And at the same time, that fawn response of that self sacrificing, like that, that really strong urge to do the right thing and just to help everyone and just like you said in your post, to fix everything and feeling that responsibility on you and we're selected for being those kinds of people and it's like our nervous system has learned that is where safety is if we could just always be right. And if we could fix everything, ignoring maybe what our body needs, then we can be safe. And that's what we're after ultimately. And I like looking at it that way because it's not necessarily that like ego in a bad way, but it's just like your body has this positive intention. It's learned that good things happen when you're right and when you fix things. And so you just always want that. But in contrast, it's like when you can't do that, it feels life threatening it feels like a lion is chasing you and it can feel so hard to escape it. I know I felt like in burnout It just was like I felt like I had this person who was just always looking down on me grading everything that I did and there was always this fear of Did I not just do the gold standard for this case, or, oh my gosh, is that person not totally loving me or happy with me? And it just was this constant grading, and this pressure that you can't escape.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Oh, I have such chills right now, because it's like I always called that person grading, like the vet gods, like I felt there were vet gods, like looking. And there were also surgery gods, like I did a surgical residency, which was clearly a poor match. I did two years, that was one of the main places that I was in the box, and I was like, oh shit, this is a deep box. I very much relate to the sense of the someone looking over my shoulder, looking at my medical records, did I do absolutely to the millimeter, did I place that suture in the right place? Did I, Literally, I can't say it better that I'm trying to come up with a version, but I'm like, no you pretty much said it absolutely perfect. And not that perfect perfection exists. I'm talking life coach here. There's no perfect. And I love, I think you're absolutely right, we're selected for the people pleasing, which is fawn. It's like hardcore, the deepest people pleasing known to man is who vets are right. And then I also wanted to say since we're talking about like nervous system stuff, first of all, it is life threatening. That is the feeling in the body. It feels I'm over. I'm done. I'm going to hell. Or that's beyond life threatening. That's like you died and then went to hell. Like it's beyond, but then I also want to say that I find that now the people that I work with, all of us still Have the fawn but I think what kicks in almost after years in this paradigm of being suppressed and living with codependency tendencies as though that is the right way to be being positively reinforced for codependency. What I think. happens next is people get stuck in the freeze, they get really stuck. Like they feel that they can't move. There's no place to go. There's no other way to do things. And they're locked in and they lose their sense of agency. So that's a lot of the time what the people that I'm working with don't Realize how much agency they used to have and it's been literally suppressed and beaten out of them like by the system and burnout and compassion fatigue and those are the causes but they're also the symptoms and there's so many nervous system Mind fucks that we face as veterinarians. And I love, I just love this conversation. And I have such an admiration for veterinarians who went the coaching route. Like I'm doing coaching, but it's not quite of this variety. There's a hint of it. It's my work is trauma informed and it's informed by this stuff, but I'm specifically on a very specific goal, but like people like you who are like really working at the heart of these mindset issues and the trauma and the wound. And I just have such admiration and appreciation for what you're doing. And I think you're literally single hand, like not single hand, but like one by one fixing not fixing, cause that's also not what we want to do, but supporting, making meaningful change. That's what I meant to say.

I'm pausing this for a moment to share that if you are looking for support in everything that we're talking about here, getting outside of the vet med box and embracing the color and finding the path that really lights you up instead of burns you out, my three and six months coaching programs are now race approved for CE meaning that you can get your continuing education hours and you can even use your CE money to be prioritizing what you need to feel good in and outside of vet med. Okay. Back to the conversation.

amelia:

Thank you. Oh, I just, I love talking to you because you totally get it. You're so right that it's like when we have been selected for already being in that flight and fawn response, it's like when we can't escape that threat and we've had the pressure for too long, the next logical step, what we have been designed to do is to go into that freeze and shut down. And those signs are that feeling of hopelessness or depressed and no energy or motivation. And it's like, when we look at it, the burnout and suicide rate in our profession we need to be understanding why this is happening. And I think unshaming, too, like helping people to see this is not a flaw that you have or a sign of weakness. This is because of the way that these systems are set up and the fact that we have normalized the step that leads right to that, and so I love that you are providing an opportunity for opening that cage, basically opening that door for when we are feeling stuck. Like, I know when I experienced burnout, I was an associate and I just felt what else was I going to do? Like I invested so much time and money, like my entire life to working towards this point, and I didn't really know about a lot of other opportunities outside of just being an associate in general practice. And so I think. the fact that you are doing mobile practice and house calls and now you have created these resources to help vets who maybe don't want to leave the profession but they're feeling like something needs to change to help them through that during a time when things are probably feeling really overwhelming and it needs to be one small step and to have some support I think it's so powerful and amazing that you're doing that.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it and I feel very seen by you so thank you for that. I love these podcasts where I'm literally getting coaching as I'm being interviewed like life support but wanted to say also that. I do think of Housecall Practice as that sort of almost Twilight Zone not Twilight Zone, the show, but like Twilight Region, where you're half a step outside the veterinary world, but you are technically still practicing clinical medicine, but you are, Beholden to no one. You are like, I come first. My intuition, my, my ability to take really fucking good care of my patients and animals and love animals again and love what I'm doing. And this is mine. This does not belong to the machine. That is the veterinary profession. And so to me, I'm damn, I'm one foot in each world of in and out, but that is exactly where I need to be not in this sort of system. And yet still I'm really pleased with myself and my medicine at this point, I'm like, my medicine didn't get worse by stepping out of the paradigm. It got way better and it allowed me to listen to my own intuition without the fear of the quote unquote bad gods. I'm saying a lot of quote unquote

amelia:

that's okay.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

It's all just such conceptual stuff, but like the vet gods, like I honestly, in the post that I wrote, it was getting rid of the vet God. That is you're going to heaven or hell of vets. You are right or wrong. You are worthy of existing or not, and just like being able to own my own thing and just get really attuned to my own voice, my own ethics, my own desire to provide and how I wanted to feel in my life. Providing that was such a gateway out of the usual veterinary path. And so I leaned into it on those terms. Like when I teach, it's not exactly, it is all the nitty gritty business stuff. It's everything you could possibly need and more. But to me the whole point is like learning how to navigate that sort of twilight space and own it and be like, this is mine. I love being a veterinarian cause I can do it how I, my heart calls to me to do it. This is what I envisioned when I applied to vet school to begin with. This is how I thought it was going to feel. And getting back to that feeling of empowered Within the work of being an animal doctor, which is really fucking special. And most of us have come to the point where we don't even give a shit about animals. Like we're like, I don't, I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to that literally told me I don't even like animals anymore. And I'm sure you've heard it too. I'm sure you've heard it.

amelia:

absolutely. It's just that like callous over compassion and I think still that shutdown, it's like we just stop feeling

Dr. Eve Harrison:

That's it. That's it. Callous over compassion. Damn. We stop feeling. It's really, yeah. And we shut down also parts of who we are to fit into the box. And, we're physical, we're scientifically oriented, evidence based. Every one of us, no matter how holistic we are, we're all trained within a very rigorous scientific paradigm, and so I don't think that leaves any of us, but there's more, there's spirituality that most of us have, whether we put a religion or a name to it, or, like new age or whatever, most of us have some connection to something deeper, Regardless of whatever they call it, the universe, source, God, whatever. And I think I'm bringing this up. Cause we had talked about another one of my posts, a little bit about spirituality. So I thought I would,

amelia:

Yeah. Yeah. Yes, and I think you're touching on such an important point and this is what I see so much with the vets that I Work with is that we tend to be so analytical and in our heads of just focused on what we think we should be doing and all the thoughts in our head And I love how you're talking about going into your house call practice starting to feel and that sense of connectedness. And that's so important. I think vet med, the traditional route and the way we're trained, it does disconnect us from our body and heart is what I've found. And I totally was just completely ignoring, what my body was telling me. And. So when I first start working with vets, they'll all ask what does that feel like? Or how does that feel in your body? And it's a very confusing question for them because they're just not, they're so disconnected from their body. And I think it is when you start giving yourself permission to explore other things. And I think like with your house call, it is like that beautiful, space to think, how do I want to practice? Like what feels good to me? And you start to get that feeling again so that you are able to be guided towards things that are in alignment, because you're just starting to notice, like, how is this influencing my energy? How am I feeling connected to things? And that is, Beautiful. That's about how to come back to who you actually were versus that person who you were trying to be, who you thought that you should be because of the veterinary gods or those people who are just grading us over our heads.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

you just reminded me of and even before I got into vet school just the whole interview process, the wearing the suit, and having to, you knew what they wanted you to say in the, letter of intent, and what things you definitely shouldn't say. Don't ever say the word animal rights, only say the word animal welfare. There's all these things that are just like, you will not fit in here unless you do these things. Before we even set foot in that place. And it's also just intimidating as an institution. I'm going to start veterinary school. Holy shit. I remember and this is embarrassing even to think about it, but it's like such a clear example of just what you're talking about. That's I literally can't be myself and it's not safe to be myself. I remember I had, Oh, I hope he's not listening right now. Cause I really, he's a wonderful person, still a friend to this day, but I had a boyfriend at the time who had a lot of tattoos and he looked a little like almost rough around the edges and I was embarrassed that, he was like dropping me off at school. I was like, this is not the vibe. I'm not supposed to be like that or be with someone like that. And we had already broken up at that point actually, but we were still how it is at the end of a relationship.

amelia:

Yep.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

He's a great guy. He's still a good friend. But I remember just. This sort of like shame not even on behalf of myself, but on behalf of another person who was associated with me. And it was just like, it's so gross, like thinking about how I felt that way. And I'm sure I projected some of that onto him, not his fault, but I look back and I'm like, cringe. But I also. I was thinking back about how you said that, the sort of the ego, it's not something to be ashamed of. Like we unshame the ego and there's shame as I'm speaking right now, I'm like, Oh, how could I have felt that way? Or what did I behave like towards him? Terrible. But like you said, like we're almost groomed into a sort of path. And I didn't know myself well enough to identify those thought patterns and see where they were coming from and be like, ah, that's not yours. That's something that you're. Internalized from a system that you're working within, or you're about to work within, and you're very scared about what this is all going to look like when you start vet school. And I thought it was really important that you said to unshame the ego. And I also wanted to say in regards to my references to ego in the past, that ego is not a bad thing. We need ego to live. Like you can't be a human without an ego. And it's just what aspect of the ego is driving your decision making and your understanding of where you're at. So it's like finding a balance of ego with other aspects of who you are. So I wanted to return back to how you had said that and address it there. Cause I thought that was really important.

amelia:

I love that you said that, and that actually reminds me of a quote that I wrote down that you had in another post that was"be so authentically yourself that everyone around you feels safe to be themselves too." That is like a love language, right? That is everything and what I hope so much we all can be exploring more in Vet Med. Because I think that there is this need to all be conforming and right. And I know in another post you were talking about how there was a little hesitation of sharing more of like the mystical and spiritual side that's probably a really important part of you. And I can really relate to that too, because there can be that judgment from the veterinary community. And I always like to remind myself when I'm feeling those hesitations of that is because of that flight response and that fear, if there's that judgment, they're probably dealing with so much judgment themselves, but I just loved that quote, because it's a reminder that being authentic isn't just for you, it really does help those around you to feel safer, to be, like, authentically them, and there is no better gift, I feel like.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Yeah, thank you for that. Yeah, that is it's not a direct quote, but it's a quote from someone unknown that I've seen around before. And I shifted it just a little bit for my purposes. But I have seen that around and every time I've seen it, I've just been like. Oooh God that's good. That is absolutely my MO and like how I like to show up in the world. And I can tell you that, like I'll lean into vulnerability, this gets into some of the Brenee Brown type of stuff that it's we're all so terrified of being vulnerable because we've been hurt for being vulnerable in our profession. You gotta show up, be confident know what is right and what isn't, what's wrong. And show the client that you know, everything more than they do more than Google knows and prove yourself at every moment. And it's just not it's not sustainable and it literally harms our own nervous systems and our capacity to sustain what we're doing and feel good about what we're doing. And when we can bust out of that and literally learn what parts of us want to come out and be seen and the wholeness of ourselves including like spirituality is like the peak example because vets are just so known for that judgmental cold we're it. Is there a study to back up god? No, we're not gonna, we're not gonna be doing that. But what journal article can I read about tarot? It's all bullshit. It's if it's not literally in these cubes, but you're absolutely right. The people that cling to that sort of judgment of those paradigms are suffering themselves with not being able to allow any shred of a softening or a spirituality or something that is not dictated by our actual industry and profession come through, and I would say from based on my experience, every time I've taken a risk of being vulnerable, especially with regards to spirituality, or I'm very open about the fact that I take an SSRI for my mental health, people need to hear that. I'm very open about the weight that I gained when I was and still working on that. But my, my body type literally changed because of this profession. But whenever I open up about those things and the parts that are tender, I'm not doing it in a manipulative way. I'm just getting over my fears and being like, people need to know, like people want this over and over again. People that I was so afraid were going to be like, judging me because it's judge worthy stuff, potentially, if you're into judging, I think I found over and over again that people really opened up and, and we're able to discuss that aspect of themselves and feel safe knowing that they weren't alone in their issues. And and then in turn, it's a big cycle. It's like a big self fulfilling site cause then I feel seen too, like even by the people that, we each see each other and we bounce off of each other with allowing the tender spots to be seen. And. And the authentic parts to be seen and, even, this is another example in the, sorry, I'm rambling here, but I'm just so passionate about the subject and it's so appreciative that you brought it up. But even like one of the more superficial ways that I lean into the subject is that I always consider the white coat to be like a straight jacket. It's like, your face is who you are. You're just this white, Straight jacket person walking around with maybe a hair color or a skin tone, but other than that you're a white coat walking around and who the hell else are you, we're whole people. And so when I'm in a house call capacity, I show up with blue hair like this. I show up when I first dyed my hair blue. I was like, Oh shit, now I've really done it. The vet world is really seeing things, but it's not that big of a deal. It's just blue hair. Who cares? My clients love it. Like when I first did it, they were like, this is so you. And I'm like, you knew that aboUt me?? And it's because I also I show up in yoga pants and I show up with like crazy earrings and I show up sometimes with like fun shoes and I, And I wear scrubs when I'm lazy because they're comfortable, but not because it's uniform. I show up in my house call practice in my full self, and I talk about my full self, and they talk about their full self. It's so joyous. I want to, for anyone who's listening, who's thinking about house call practice, you don't have to do that. You really don't. You can be a lot more buttoned up if you prefer and just stick to that. So you can hold that boundary a hundred percent. And if that's what you want, I encourage it. But I want to show the extent of how you can explore your own authenticity and actually use it to cultivate your practice to be exactly what you want and to attract the clients that that like, who you really are, rather than just a straitjacket walking into their home, sticking a thermometer up their animal's ass and being like regulations say I have to do this for every animal. No. It's not relevant sometimes.

amelia:

Yeah, I love, this is so important. I think because that connection between the vet and the pet owner It's really important, right? Like that relationship. And it's so true. Like the more that you can be authentically you, the more you're able to attract those dream clients who really resonate with you. And then it's it's like how many moments during the day are actually giving you energy and feeling really good. And when you can be connecting and having these conversations with pet owners while getting to do work that is so fulfilling like how much richness that adds to your life versus if you are more stuck in that straight jacket and seeing them just as like In some cases, really frustrating or like part of the problem. And there can be this polarization and judgment between both sides. And that can become one of the most draining parts of the profession. And I do think when you can introduce that humanity and authenticity and freeing yourself, that does allow you to just be connecting on a much more, just rejuvenating level.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

It's like self fulfilling, like the more you can be yourself, the more you want to be yourself, and the more you want to be around those people, and the more you want to serve those people, and then the better your business does, and the happier the clients are with you. But it's not originating from people pleasing. It eventually pleases the people, which is the ultimate mindfuck and conundrum, but it doesn't come from a place of trying to fit what, make yourself look like some Overlord of everything veterinary and the client knows nothing, everything like it doesn't that that's not even people pleasing behavior. That's a whole other thing, but

amelia:

Yeah. Related, though. I think when you start to have those feelings of resentment, that can always be this red flag that you are starting to not be authentic or to speak up for what you need or have boundaries and I think all that of that is related

Dr. Eve Harrison:

absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. The resentment that is like the trigger to be like, Oh, something's off.

amelia:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

and like to know what resentment feels like in your body and to be like, I feel something behind my eyes. My boundaries are off. Oh, shit, like I that's somatic work is so important I love that you start with the body in your work the body keeps the score right as we know

amelia:

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's my big hope in vet med is that we can be normalizing and adopting a nervous system approach. I really think, the fear free approach that we have for pets. I am thinking like, why can we not have that for people? Really so that we notice the signs of stress responses so that we can be supporting one another. And just like you were saying, like, when you do have that vulnerability, how much that can help you to connect with colleagues. I think that's so true. Like I Felt imposter syndrome for so long just these feelings like I wasn't good enough I didn't know enough and it was so eye opening when I started to realize like even the people who I really looked up to Realizing oh, they're having the same thoughts that I am, and we're so often just silently suffering from these thoughts when We're all having the same thoughts. And if we could just be normalizing that and even noticing Oh, okay. You just are feeling like you're way too busy. You just worked through lunch. Like you're not listening to your body. Like, how can we help to prioritize pausing and nourishing your body or, okay, you just said yes to this client but it seems like you're feeling pretty overwhelmed. How can we support you in feeling more comfortable with boundaries? I think the more we just start seeing things from a nervous system perspective, my hope is that the more we can feel safe to be being more vulnerable or sharing those things that are adding stress onto our plate.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Absolutely. Oh I just had a vision of, do you know, the feline grimace score where you look at their face and how stressed or in pain they are, or, there's literally an objective way to look at what's physically happening to their body and it shows up in the face. And as you were saying we should have a fear free approach for the veterinarians too. It's we should literally have a grimace score for us. Like maybe look at yourself in the mirror, like two, three times during the day and be like Oh, what was I doing? What got me here? Is this what I want to be doing right now? Is this how I want to be thinking about it? Is this, are these the right people for me to be spending my time with? Or is there a mindset shift I can have if this is the place I really want to be? We should invent it. The human veterinarian grimace scale.

amelia:

I know, right? Yes. And I that's one thing I want to be sharing is like, what does it feel like in your body when you are stuck in the flight response or fawn or shut down, so that we are starting to listen. And also, I think starting with just noticing like When we have to go to the bathroom and not holding it or when we are hungry, I think in vet med, we have been just so programmed to totally ignore and that fawning and to put our patients before whatever we need and not putting our oxygen masks on First that it's like some of the first steps of reconnecting with yourself is just noticing Oh, I'm thirsty. Maybe I should have a drink or I'm tired or I need to go to the bathroom and it's okay to take a minute to do that. And while you're looking in the mirror, do your new grimace score.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

You're like, my grimace is a 4 out of 5 right now. I love you. It's gonna be okay. Relax your jaw.

amelia:

Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

tailbone drop. Feel the contact with the floor. How's my grimace now? But it's so uncanny as we talk about these things, how very true it is that we literally can't feel our own bodies. Like, when I gained all that weight, I was eating and eating. I would eat pints of ice cream and just not even realize I'd done it. It's that sort of going on autopilot that's

amelia:

Totally.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

it's the autopilot of what you do and what you're doing, what you're thinking, but it's also the autopilot of. Of dissociating from the actual feeling, the somatic sensations in your actual physical body. That we can't perceive that we have to pee. We can't perceive that, our heart rate is like through the frickin roof right now. We know we're upset about something, but the whole physiology it's not even accessible when we're in that kind of state. So it's so uncanny and so worth pointing out how detached we've become as a profession. It seems almost impossible that we might not be able to perceive these things within ourselves, but it's like rampant. It's absolutely rampant. And I think the first step is naming it and the diagnosis is curative, not to put an excessively clinical spin on it, but that phrase seems to be somewhat appropriate that just even observing this exists, it is clearly

amelia:

cause it's once you are aware of something or bringing that unconscious to conscious, then you have the power to do something about it. So I think that is the first step. And I think it is important to be talking about how we are really normalizing being in that survival mode and how we can't fix it in our head, it's like we need to be doing those somatic exercises and learning how to tell our nervous system we are safe. It is okay. Like I hope we can really normalize those so much, like just make it as routine as physical exams. I think it's something we should be teaching in vet school. Because being a veterinarian, it does mean that we are going to be encountering stressful things throughout the day but our baseline doesn't have to be stressed out. Our baseline can be safe and creating a supportive space so that we have that resilience and that knowledge of how to communicate with our body to shift back out of it.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

I love this stuff. It's so inspiring.

amelia:

Yeah. Yeah. I love that you totally see it too.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

I speak the language.

amelia:

And so speaking of fun things to talk about, I would love to explore to hear a little bit more of what are some of the more mystical or spiritual things that are just really interesting you right now, or that helped you to maybe reconnect with yourself. And I'm curious if this was always a part of you, or if there was a point when you started to explore that side.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Thank you for asking this, so rarely do I get to answer it on a veterinary podcast. I've always been a spiritual person. It's meant different things to me over time. I I do tend a little bit towards some of the sort of so called New Age spirituality, but what I really find that to be is universal spirituality that draws upon spiritual traditions from all over the world and Lands on some universal truths. I have really leaned lately into Kabbalah in the Jewish mystic tradition. I am Jewish and I've never been a religious person at all, but I've been leaning a little bit into that part of my heritage lately and finding that there is universal truth there that is actually the source, like the original source of some of the concepts that are in that sort of new age philosophy concepts of abundance and, attracting in the universe. That's very explored in the Kabbalistic mystic tradition magic, all sorts of magical things that may or may not be literal, take it or leave it how it lands for you in the moment. That's how I approach it. Does this idea nourish me? Does it inspire me? Does it make me feel better or give me a way forward? Is how I approach these concepts rather than is it objectively true? I don't take a evidence based medicine approach to spirituality. I take from it what serves me. And the yogic tradition has been a very important part of my spirituality. I am certified as a yoga teacher, and this was part of my kind of big transformation of getting out of those boxes where I was like, Oh my God, every vet I know is going to judge the shit out of me. They're like, she's becoming a what?. And I'm like, yeah, yoga teacher, and I know you're secretly jealous, even though externally you're judging, but internally you're wishing you were doing this too. But it really changed a lot for me in connecting with the somatics of the breath. The breath is very important to me. I play music. I'm a semi professional flautist and the fact that I play the flute, which is a breath oriented instrument has gotten me connected with sort of pranayama, awareness of the breath, using the breath to control your nervous system or not control your nervous system, but to work with and nourish your nervous system. I think that's probably more coach friendly way you could probably say it. And I would also say that my flute playing has introduced me to a lot of world traditions because I also play world flute many different types of flutes. So I've explored cultures and often the flute is a very spiritual instrument. It's used for ceremony in a lot of cultures. And then finally, speaking of ceremony, what's most recently in my spiritual wheelhouse is that this is all above ground, completely legal, but I'm going to say the thing. I am formally certified as a psilocybin facilitator in the state of Oregon, where it is absolutely legal. To provide those kinds of services. And so I've experienced ceremonies in that capacity which have connected me to levels of spirituality that I don't think I could have experienced or understood without that type of medicine.

amelia:

I think that's so cool. I'm so interested in that topic and I love that it is becoming more legal and recognized because I think there can be so much value. And I haven't tried that, but I I'm certified in hypnosis and my teacher is very interested in Creating a psychedelic experience, but through hypnosis without the actual psychedelics. And so I've done it like through hypnosis trying to be in that same state basically. But I'm interested what your experience has been because one thing I hear is that it does just open up this sense of, Oneness or connectedness or like lifting this veil. And so I'm curious what has your experience been? And who is a good candidate for that

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Yeah. Oh, I'm loving this conversation so much this is filling my heart on kind of on the subject that you said I, that, my, my sense of spirituality was, connected to a bit of a sense of a oneness, a lot of the Eastern traditions, like Buddhism talks about oneness, Judaism talks about oneness, God is one, Kabbalah has a strong focus on oneness. And Not in the sense of like man in a throne being the one, but it's actually much bigger than that, and in a universal spirituality type of way. And I would say for the first time in one of these types of ceremonial experiences being used specifically medicinally, I experienced that oneness in a somatic sense. I understood it. And on a whole other level, not just conceptually, this is probably what's out there, but to the point that I felt it and to the point where I now feel comfortable using the word God for that, which is a big shift for me. Cause I've never been that person who refers to my spirituality in religious terms, but it was a big shift. You can imagine I, wow, this means something to me now, and I think people use this language of being in touch with God consciousness. That feels relevant to the experiences that I've had. And also one thing that's really special about using psilocybin for trauma work and healing and identity and self discovery is something that is called I'm blanking on the name of it now. I'll have to get back to you about it, but it is a term that is coined, I believe, by Robin Carhart Harris, who does a lot of research on this and has a lot of publications for the, those who want the evidence based medicine. It is there. It is really there. A lot of research is being done. And it is it's an acronym that describes a loosening of rigidly held paradigms within our minds. It just relaxes the things that we think we believe, often limiting beliefs, like I'm not good enough, I don't belong I'm bad, or this happened to me because I deserved it. These kinds of stories, it has this capacity when in the right set and setting with the right facilitator and a safe place to relax these long held really rigid, limiting beliefs and. Or anything that we're holding on to that is just I can't let go of it. It is. It's who I am. And it's it's more imposter syndrome is not who you are. And it gives you this capacity to move and to have this fluidity of your thought process and even aspects of your identity can become clear because you suddenly can see through a lens that is not only one color. You can see in red and blue and green and purple and lavender and, speaking of colors it brings literally, I actually see physical colors, some people do, but it literally, Brings this is a synesthesia type of concept where you hear visuals and sounds or you smell a texture. So that, that can happen too. But part of that neuroflexibility is that your ideas also begin to loosen up and you have the room to retrain your brain in a positive way. a healthy way, a way that removes your sense of guilt or the weight, the story you're telling about your own trauma. Yeah.

amelia:

love that you're sharing that and I think that's so important like for anyone listening who is feeling stuck or like feeling like things aren't changed, that's the beautiful thing about the brain is that neuroplasticity, right? It's like when you can find that avenue your brain is so capable of learning new beliefs and new thought patterns and new habits when you are able to just embrace curiosity and find which of these paths, are interesting. I've in my coaching learned this approach that uses memory reconsolidation and it's It's this cool, it's, it feels magical, but it's like you can light up these memories and really rewire your brain so that you're having different associations with those things, maybe it's imposter syndrome and, or whatever. And I love that there are so many options, and those therapies. And I think for any vets who are, Feeling like it can't change, knowing that that's probably just being in that freeze or shut down, that nervous system state where it's super understandable that you're feeling that way. And if they can maybe just embrace a little bit of curiosity of just seeing maybe if any of those things that you just listed, even just make them a little bit curious. I've this year have been learning a little bit about quantum physics, and I feel like for those that are evidence based, it actually has helped me to look at like spirituality and even like Reiki or some of these things that we're talking about from a little bit of a science perspective, which I think helps to just ease into this kind of world. But I think that's so cool that you I have explored that and it's just so fun when you allow yourself to learn things outside of vet med too, to have a life outside of vet med.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Yeah. I love that. And I think I also wanted to touch on, That you said you, you can achieve altered states of consciousness without substances. For someone who struggles with substances this might not be the approach for them. There's certain contraindications borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, and other types of psychoses that, it's rampant in our population. We all have something going on. But if any of those types of things are going on, mushrooms may, psilocybin may not be safe or the right thing or the thing you'd even want to do, but there are absolutely hypnosis and breath work. And really, I haven't done it, but I've heard that it really gets you into a completely altered state of mind where things are more flexible and you can, Sort of work with the subconscious mind and see what's up. And then, of course there's coaching and I think there's so many things that are just literally outside of the tool chest that we think we have as veterinarians, that it's actually okay, like it's okay to try things and go into modalities that are maybe have more anecdotal success than, EBM type of articles, like there, there's a lot that we know and learn experientially and anecdotally that, that are worth putting our trust into, especially if we're at our wit's end and we feel we've tried everything, but the reality is that usually there's always something else to try. And sometimes it's these outside the box approaches to healing our trauma around our careers or other aspects of our life in order to move forward. Honestly, either by leaving the profession or finding a twilight place within it or loving exactly where you are with a new brain,

amelia:

Yes. Yes. And I think it does go back to releasing yourself from that needing to be right or that perfection is allow yourself to experiment and I've found like the times that I am hitting rock bottom or failing or something doesn't work that's also the opportunity to really connect with What does? Okay, now I have so much information about what didn't work for me. And having that curiosity to try different things or even maybe if that means starting to talk to people about, what other people have tried and what has helped. There are just endless places to play, right? I think we all need a little bit more play. Yeah.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

100 percent.

amelia:

I feel like I could talk to you forever, Eve, but since we are getting to the end, one question that I like to ask everyone is, when do you feel most alive?

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Ooh. I feel most alive when I'm playing my flute even more alive when I'm playing my flute in a psilocybin ceremony, which I do sometimes

amelia:

Oh,

Dr. Eve Harrison:

there's a connection to God, there is air, there's music, there's creativity. I'm physically in my body performing for other people, connecting with other people, but really in my own Inner sanctuary. That's when I feel most alive.

amelia:

That's beautiful. That sounds truly magical.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

It literally is. There's no other word for it.

amelia:

Love that. And then, importantly, where can people find you? I know you have some great programs and you have a conference coming up, so tell us a little bit about your resources so people can connect with you.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Thank you

amelia:

for asking.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Reigning it in. My signature program is called the House Call Vet Academy, which is an online on demand CE training where people can learn how to start their own house call practices or level up the house call practice they already have. If they're struggling with anything it has a monthly group coaching, which is a little bit more focused on the business side of things and the logistics and then we have an exclusive Facebook community. So that's the house call vet Academy. And that can be found pretty much on any of my social media platforms, Instagram, Facebook. I'm just starting up with LinkedIn. Go me. Or on my website, www. doctoreveharrison. com or www. thehousecallvetacademy. com. And then we also have February 1st and 2nd, our virtual house call and mobile vet virtual conference for anyone who's thinking about starting house call practice, anyone who's in house call practice, it is completely specific cE to house call and mobile vets perspective and current. And you don't have to leave your couch to attend and get a bunch of CE credits. And then I also have a podcast too, which we'll have Amelia on for sure. Which is called the house call vet cafe. And if anyone is interested in dipping a toe into house call practice, I have a free house call and mobile vet Business plan template which you can get on any of my platforms. I hope to see any of you guys who are interested and I hope that you guys will work with Amelia and me and we'll get some magic happening.

amelia:

yeah. Such amazing resources. Thank you. And is there anything else that you wanted to say or share

Dr. Eve Harrison:

No, I'm just really thankful and appreciative that through this path, I've been able to find people like you who. Just have that depth of understanding of the human psyche and what we're really up against in the mental health crisis in our profession and who've really just done the work and who get it, I'm just really appreciative to find and speak with people like you and to be able to partner together to spread the word and help make things better for our colleagues. And our profession and ultimately our patients.

amelia:

Thank you. And thank you for all that you're posting. So many of your posts. Definitely for those listening, you have to follow Eve because there's so much gold and wisdom in that. And I'm so glad that we can just support one another and talk about these important topics.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Yeah. Thank you. The same to you. Your Instagram is definitely amazing and follow worthy. So follow us both.

amelia:

Awesome. Thanks so much for being here, Eve.

Dr. Eve Harrison:

Thank you.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with someone who you think could benefit. And if you're enjoying this podcast, it would mean so much to me If you would take the time to leave a review so that others can find me. And as I thank you if you leave a review, send me an email, letting me know, and I'll send you a free guided meditation for mental rehearsal. So that is exactly what elite athletes, executives, incredible surgeons all use at the scientifically proven way to improve performance. And the reason this works so well is because when you are mentally rehearsing, the same area of your brain is lighting up as if you were actually doing it. And so it's a safe and effective way to be preparing and practicing and improving your skills for when you're actually living it in the moment. So send me an email at amelia@lifeboost.Today if you leave a review and i can't wait to share that with you cheers your inevitable health happiness and success