Ep. 68 | Recovering From Burnout with Guest Dr. Stacey Cordivano - The Whole Veterinarian

In this episode, Dr. Stacey Cordivano shares her story of experiencing and recovering from burnout. As a solo ambulatory equine veterinarian and mom with two kids under the age of 3, she knew something had to change when she found herself driving to the hospital to have her appendix out after cooking Thanksgiving dinner.  Just a couple of months earlier, she had been diagnosed with Lyme disease and experienced the emotional trauma of needing to wean her second child from nursing early. Despite making some changes, a year later she found herself asking, "What am I doing? Am I really making a difference?". That's when she started to discover personal development podcasts which introduced her to a whole new world that helped her start her journey of recovering from burnout.

Now, in addition to being a practice owner, equine vet, and mother, she is the host of the podcast, The Whole Veterinarian, where she has conversations with out-of-the-box thinkers who share new ideas on ways veterinarians can add more joy to their life to feel whole again. In this episode, she shares tips that have helped her to recover from burnout and she shares her perspective as a practice owner for what helps to create a "unicorn veterinary hospital" - a hospital where employees feel lucky to work at their practice because they're supported, respected, and valued so that they can provide veterinary care in a way that feels good and still have energy left at the end of the day to be a human outside of vet med.

Stacey is such a cool person, and I know you're going to get so much out of this conversation!

Here are ways you can connect with Stacey:
Thewholeveterinarian.com
Instagram:  @Thewholeveterinarian
Thewholeveterinarian@gmail.com

Resources mentioned in the show:
Free Beat The Burnout series for veterinarians
The 3 Month Game Changer Program to shift out of survival mode and regain your energy and sanity in just 10-15 minutes per day
The 6 Month Mentorship program to unleash your most confident, healthy, energized self in a way that feels like a breath of fresh air

I'm doing something fun for the month of December! If you listen to a podcast episode and then share it on social media and tag me (@lifeboostwithamelia), you'll be entered into a drawing at the end of the month for a chance to win a free 1 hour 1-on-1 coaching session with me. Two winners will be selected at the end of the month (you can also gift the session if you wish). Every share on social media counts as one entry. Fun, right? 

Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical, mental health, or professional advice. I am a certified health and life coach, not a licensed medical or mental health professional. Please consult with a healthcare provider before making any changes to your physical or mental health routines. If you are experiencing a crisis, seek help from a qualified professional or contact emergency services.

Connect with me on your favorite social media channel: Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn!

To learn more about my approach and the programs and free resources available to support you, visit my website: www.lifeboost.today

I love to hear from you. You can always reach me at amelia@lifeboost.today.

Transcript

1:05

Welcome to the life boost with a million podcast where we're changing the narrative around what true health and success look like. They should give you energy, not drain it. I'm your host, Dr. Amelia multi-passionate integrative health and life coach, entrepreneur, and recovered burnout veterinarian. Together, we'll explore the science behind how your brain and body work, including the unconscious mind while also connecting with what your heart needs in order to stand up to the norm of feeling stuck on a hamster wheel-working hard yet feeling exhausted and not where you want to be- and instead live a life that makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning and in love with who you see when you look in the mirror. The reality is if you do what everyone else is doing, you're not going to feel good. Let's break the norm. I'm excited to introduce you to my guest today. Dr. Stacy Corcovado. she is such a cool, wonderful person. I always have so much fun. Chatting with her. She wears many hats. So she's an equine veterinarian and the host of a podcast, the whole veterinarian, which is all about having conversations around how veterinarians can add more joy into their life through. Personal development and finance in order to find their whole self. And it is awesome. Highly recommend. Checking it out. And she's also a mom. And I invited her here to share her story of burnout and what helped to lead her to this point now where she is creating so many positive changes in the veterinary profession. And I know you'll get so much out of listening to this. She shares so many gems of things that helped her to shift from that low point to where she is now. And as you listen to her story, one thing I invite you to do. Is to watch out for signs of being in survival mode or those trauma responses showing up. So as a reminder, that's fight flight Fon and freeze. So flight. That high-achieving, busy-ness never able to slow down fight mode. Suddenly everything is irritating. Fon saying yes. When you want to say no lack of boundaries, always putting other's needs before your own. And freeze that can be disconnected from things that used to bring you joy that could be related to compassion, fatigue. And listen for the point when her body really started to demand a change. And what happened when she started to make that shift. She embraced those Lifebuoy, sees compassion and curiosity. A point when she started to get curious about what could we different and what wasn't working. And noticing how her body responded with having this feeling of a weight being lifted off your shoulders. That is always such a guiding light And with any burnout story, you'll see that common theme of those signs of being in survival mode, but not listening to them. And then better being that point when it's that only the body is just saying loud and clear, we've had too much. And then how much changes and the weight that gets lifted and the energy that you get back when you start to really get curious and embrace compassion, and connect with what you need in order to. Be the truest version of you. This is something that is so important too, to be talking about in and outside of med, because our society really has normalized being in these survival modes. And in vet med we're even rewarded for that busy-ness and inability to say no. And always saying yes. And if we want to be preventing burnout, we need to be creating a new norm where we recognize those signs of being in survival mode as red flags, rather than the norm in our profession. So, if any of those signs of being stuck in survival mode sound familiar to you now is the time to start getting curious about what you need And Stacy shares so many great tips that can make a big difference. So think about which one of those you want to put into practice after this episode. and for more in-depth support, you can check out my free beat the burnout series. Or my programs, which are designed to help you to shift out of survival mode and to get your energy and sanity back. With just 10 to 15 minutes per day. So you can check out the links in the show notes and welcome to the conversation.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 5:53

All right, Stacy, thank you so much for carving out time to be here today.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 5:58

Sure. I'm glad to be here. How are you?

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 6:01

I'm good. How are you?

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 6:02

great. Thanks.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 6:04

Awesome. Yeah, I'm excited to have you here because you are just such a cool person and you are spreading so much positivity in the world and, you know, we first met through Instagram and became friends that way and I remember just Noticing, like being pleasantly surprised that there was an equine vet talking about like work life balance and well being because that, I hadn't seen any other equine vets talking about that, so that was so refreshing.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 6:38

Yeah. Sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm a ray of positivity because I'm like constantly kind of ragging on equine veterinary medicine. um, that's good to hear that you take it that way. Yes.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 6:54

and also I just appreciate you have such great reels. You're the whole veterinarian on Instagram, um, they're always entertaining and real life. Yeah,

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 7:06

those ones go pretty well.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 7:10

so I am so curious to hear about your story because even though we have connected, I feel like I don't really know the story of what led you to that point of like where you are now. I know you experienced burnout and I want to talk about that, um, but before we dive into Yeah, you know, what you do. I'd like to start with a question that's more like who you are. Um, so,

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 7:38

Yeah, that's a hard one to answer.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 7:40

Um, yeah. So, when, when are the times when you feel most alive?

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 7:48

see, most alive. I feel most alive when I'm challenging myself, I think. Whether that be, you know, I just took my son skiing yesterday, so like, that's at the top of my mind, right? Like, whether it's something physically challenging or You know, speaking at AAP last year for the first time was a big challenge, and you finish that and you feel kind of like, wow, like this feels Um, but yeah, I think it's something I've been working on. Like, I'm doing something that makes a difference. So yeah, I think challenging and making a difference. You know, making a difference is one of my core values and so I think whenever I'm living into my core values, I feel alive and I, you know, I didn't learn that phrase until a couple years ago. So like, that's something I've been working on but I think if I really think about it, that's probably when I feel most alive.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 8:47

Yeah, that resonates with me so much. I can totally understand. And I think that that's really notable and so helpful to notice it is those times when you're like pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone a little bit, because I don't know about you, but personally, I spent so long holding myself back because I was kind of afraid of that feeling in some ways of like really pushing myself outside of my comfort zone and I think that's awesome that you're identifying like that's actually when you feel.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 9:18

Yeah. And I think that's a really common thing, especially for us veterinarians, right? Like we, whether it's learned or developed, we get in this sort of fixed mindset of like having to be the best and having to get perfect grades and having to, you know, get all these accolades for how we're performing in clinics or whatever. And so then when we get out in the real world after vet school, it feels scary to do things that we don't know that we're going to excel at.. So, you know, it, it's hard to push yourself to do things if you think failure is not a viable option. But, you know, I think personally that mindset shift for me has been really helpful to realize that failure is like part of the process and it's probably going to make you a better person in the long run. And so trying new things and being scared is, is important. Um,

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 10:17

I think it is, it's like all in the way that you're looking at like, failure too, right? Like, if you know that you have your back, no matter what happens, you're like, not gonna judge yourself and you can just learn from that and seeing that as a growth opportunity, then I think it makes it less scary. But I think as vets especially, we can be our own worst critic big time. Just.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 10:39

sure.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 10:40

Yeah.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 10:40

sure. I hate to generalize, but that's one thing I think we can kind of generalize on.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 10:46

Right? I know. I think so, too. So I'm interested to hear what led you into veterinary medicines. Originally I was, I thought I wanted to be an equine vet as well and it wasn't until like third year of vet school that I decided that for work life balance, I wanted to do small animal and I ended up still reaching burnout anyways, but I'm just curious to hear How old were you? What led you down? So that path.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 11:14

Yeah, there wasn't really any other option starting at age 3.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 11:19

Okay.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 11:20

My cousin is an equine vet, so I, I had exposure to it pretty early on. I grew up riding pretty early on. Yeah, I, I don't know that there was any other option and that's probably not great for one's, uh, sense of identity, if it ever has to change later on.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 11:40

Yes. Yeah,

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 11:42

yeah, my mom used to, like, ask me if I liked Animals or people better, and I would always answer which people are you talking about? You know, like, it was just like, it was really veterinary medicine all the way. There was this, like, slight, uh, time period where I was like, Well, maybe I'm not going to get into vet school. Like, what am I going to do? And, like, the backup plan was, you know, to get a master's in some sort of animal program and reapply. So, like, there really was not another option for me. Yes.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 12:16

I feel like so many of us just decided so early on, like way before we really understood what the profession was like actually entailed and. Yeah, it really you're so right that that does become a huge part of your identity when That's something that you have like decided at age three that's going to happen.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 12:38

Yeah. I mean, for me personally, uh, we'll probably get into it if we're going to talk about my burnout story, but the thought of like not being an equine vet is a hard thing. It's a hard thought. Yeah.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 12:51

Yeah. Yeah, so let's dive into that that story so you decide at three that you're going to be a vet and there's no other option and then what happened in between that point and the point when you did Reach burnout?

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 13:07

Yeah, so I, I mean typical lots of animal experience all through high school and undergrad. I got in off the wait list the first time I applied, so I was really lucky. I didn't have to do any of the backup plans. Um, I got in kind of, uh, by the skin of my teeth, but, um, went to Virginia, Maryland. Tracked, we tracked there, so I tracked equine. I'm very unqualified, very unqualified to touch a small animal. Uh, I think, you know, we had a couple rotations, but most of my fourth year. Was either in the large animal hospital or spent off site, we had a lot of freedom to do externships off site. And, um, I did an internship at a, sort of a, Generalized hospital internship and then it was 2009 when I finished that and um, you know, the world was in chaos because of the financial crisis and I could, there was maybe like three job openings and I think one was in Australia.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 14:11

Wow.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 14:12

so I did a secondary internship with that same practice. They were very heavily sports medicine interested and, you know, that drove me that direction. So I did a second sort of six month sports med internship with that practice. And then I basically was like, there are no job openings. I am now married. My husband, luckily, lives in a very horse dense area. So I think I'm just going to start my own practice. So that's what I did. And I think, um, I've thought about this now looking back, and we typically think of burnout in that like five year post-graduation period. I think the research kind of points to that, and for me it was delayed because I think the starting of my own practice gave me enough sort of new stuff to do and just like being occupied and um, hustling. So mine was delayed, so I was a solo practitioner. Um, let me do the math here. I was a solo practitioner for Five years when I got pregnant with my first child and, um, you know, I, I hate to even tell how I, like, managed that because it was so terrible. I did, like, I had a relief vet but he came late and so I had 11 days off, uh, after he was born.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 15:42

Oh my gosh.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 15:44

Yeah, don't do that anybody. Um, and then I brought him along with, I, I'm very lucky that my parents live down here and were willing to take care of my kids, So I brought my mom along, and him, and the truck, and I tried to just work pretty much the same way I worked before I had him. I was very healthy during my pregnancy, so like, I was injecting stifles on horses that I knew, like, in month eight. I worked the whole time, um, and I tried to just go back to normal. That wasn't great. You know, it wasn't great. Um, I had, I had a client ask me about this horse and I was like, Remind me what, like when I saw him and she mentioned that it was like two months after my first kid was born and I was like, Yeah, that's a total blur. That is why I don't remember ever seeing that horse, let alone remember its name or what was wrong with it. Um, got really behind on records, you know, like it was, it was not a great plan. Um, so I did that and kind of powered through and then I had my second child and so that was 2017. So I had been in solo practice for seven years by that point and, um,

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 17:00

Um,

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 17:01

you know, it became very clear that I was, I was not going to be able to continue working the way I was working. I, um,

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 17:12

yeah.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 17:12

I got diagnosed with Lyme disease when he was 8 months old, so I had to wean him early, which is like a pretty big emotional trauma. And then, um, Uh, and then on Thanksgiving, I cooked everybody dinner and drove myself to the hospital and had my appendix out. And

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 17:33

oh my gosh,

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 17:35

that was like a month or two later.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 17:38

Whoa.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 17:38

It was like, my body was just like, Stacy, you can't do this anymore. So after that, I did some reflection, but you know, not with any help, but I started uh, firing some clients that maybe just didn't, um, You know, they didn't pay their bills well, or they were kind of far away, and I had always just said yes to everything, because that's how you get a practice going from the ground up when you don't know anybody. I mean, I wasn't from the area, I didn't have any contacts here, really. And so I always said yes to everything and just got into some really bad habits, and So I started letting some clients go and that worked okay, but then probably a year later, um, I just started feeling like, what am I doing? Like I, you know, I have these great clients, but am I really making a difference? Am I just helping them, you know, dance around the dressage ring a little bit better by injecting their hocks? And I realized the irony of it because. You know, I had a very boutique practice of great clients and fairly mid to high end clientele that I could do a lot of things that I wanted to do or if they needed to be referred. And on the outside, like looking in, it, it looked like a great situation, but ultimately I wasn't really feeling fulfilled. And A lot of that was, I realized, as I sort of discovered some of these things, that I was in pretty severe burnout and compassion fatigue. And so, you know, the, the differentiation for compassion fatigue is the feeling like you're not making a difference. And I could not see myself like being beneficial to anybody. Even though I probably clearly was. I just couldn't see it. So, yeah,

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 19:32

Right. And it sounds like that is, that's one of the things that makes you feel alive,

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 19:36

I had never heard the idea of core values. I didn't know about personal development. I thought self help books were like this section in the library that like, woo woo people went to. And, fast forward a few years. That's funny now, but um, I ultimately stumbled on to some personal development podcasts because my husband started getting interested in real estate and, you know, my brain was very full and I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about. Like, how are we going to take on this new project? And he was like, well listen to this podcast. And so, I listened to this podcast and they ended up having like several um, authors on of what ultimately you would define as personal development books. Like James Clear, right? Atomic Habit. I heard him talk. I heard Ryan Holiday talk about his new book that was sort of like philosophical and like a deep dive into like what meaning is to you. And, and so I started diving into some of that stuff and realizing like, geez, like we do not learn any of this stuff. I didn't, right? I graduated in 08, right? Like this was not taught, like well being was not talked about in school. And some of these things are really beneficial, like time management and leadership skills and, you know, boundary setting, like who had ever heard of a boundary? I, I had not.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 21:07

Same.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 21:08

So, you know, I started diving into them and realizing like, Oh my gosh, these are actually really beneficial. And so between that I did, you know, start to see a therapist as well. And I also. I spent some time working with a mentor who had been an equine vet and, you know, is now an executive coach and he kind of helped me create some buckets of my life and try to work on really small ways to improve different sections rather than like looking at your life and being like, Oh my God, I have to tackle this massive project of like improving my life. He helped me kind of break it down and make it more actionable. And so that was like a year long process. And I'm not like, perfect or solved by any means because I still tend to say yes to exciting things too much. I, and um, It's kind of a constant work in progress and self care is always a bucket that I let go easily. It's just in my nature. Um, but that's sort of how I got into this space and then started the whole Veterinarian Instagram just to see if I liked sharing it. Because I kind of thought, other people need to know about this. And like you said, like certainly no one in the equine world has the time to talk about this. And

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 22:29

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 22:30

I am lucky enough to not be the breadwinner in my household so I was able to cut back on my hours and like had a little bit of mental space at this point to kind of think like what if I could help other people and that sort of snowballed. Yeah.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 22:47

And that, from your whole story, that sounds like the first time that you actually, like, Subtracted something a little bit because what I hear like throughout that whole story. It's like you're just like adding more and more like you're taking on your own business and then you have one kid and then you have another one and You're just yeah and saying that yes, so yeah that and how was that Stepping back a little bit in the hours to like make space for something

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 23:16

mean it happened a little bit naturally or um, out of necessity because once there are two kids. I was not keen on never seeing them. So, um, It just, I had, I had to cut, like I said, I had to cut some people, some clients out. And the bottom line was that I actually grossed more that year. That first year that I fired, I probably fired 10 percent of my clientele. And it wasn't in a good headspace that, at that time yet, but between, you know, getting a little stricter on billing policies and cutting out some of the clientele, I saw that I made more money. And so it made it. Um, and I think it's really important for people to understand that it's not an easy decision to kind of keep on that track because I could do better medicine, I wasn't so rushed, I could follow up more with rechecks, I wasn't so busy that I couldn't pull out the x ray machine, you know, just things like that, that we sometimes, as equine vets, just think that we need to be busy all the time and, you know, work 10 hour days. I was like, well, you know, I'm not trying to make a million dollars here, but I don't wanna lose money. But that didn't happen. So that was like a positive reinforcer for doing that. And so it made it easier to kind of continue that. And then I also wanted to see my kids more, so I tried to end the day, you know, by four and I couldn't really start the day that early So then it just you have a little more space to kind of start thinking about doing things for other people and then I probably hit another phase of burnout after I started the podcast and I had covered a maternity leave for a very close friend and colleague and I was I was managing all of that the first summer that I started the podcast, and I was like, woof, like, I'm really enjoying doing some of these other things, and, but like, I'm an equine vet. Like how, like what am I, you know, that was when that identity really came into play. Because before that it was never like, am I going to stop doing this? It was like, okay, I'll just like change how I'm doing it. I'll get a nanny. I'll work a little less hours. But then when I realized I enjoyed doing some of the other projects, I was like, woof, like am I going to stop being an aequine vet. Like, what would happen to my clients? And honestly, the relationships that I had with my clients really kept me in it because, um, I didn't wanna leave them stranded, and I didn't wanna never see them again. And then that's when, actually, an associate kind of fell into my lap, and I, I didn't Um, I never really thought that I would have a team just because it was such a niche, small practice, but it was honestly the best thing that's ever happened to me. Um, she's great. Our, um, core values really align. We work hard on developing, like, practice core values together. And, yeah, and, um, You know, she's taken on a lot of the work that I was feeling really overwhelmed by so now I'm kind of learning some new skills about leading a team, but that's been really fun, too. So Yeah,

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 26:35

so many like gems in there. I think I think it's worth repeating and really highlighting that fact that when you were weeding out some of those clients who were just like totally draining you and you actually ultimately ended up producing more in your practice. So I think that that's amazing just because you're able to be a little bit more intentional about the people that you wanted and then you were actually having like the time to follow through in the cases that really, that were worth following through.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 27:11

and I know I mentioned that it was like distance and whether people paid their bills or not But there were people that were good pay that spent a lot of money with me over the year And I still got rid of a couple, I can think of three that I got rid of that were really emotionally draining. And whether that was just like, we didn't align on what we thought was important, or they didn't follow through on recommendations, or I don't know what in a couple of instances what it was. But those actually probably were the easiest, or were the most significant lift off my shoulders. And so if people are thinking about it, like, don't just look at how much people, how much money people are spending. Um, try to consider, like, the whole package of, like, what it means to you to have them or not have them.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 28:00

Yeah. I love that message. And I also like how you're talking about that weight lifted off your shoulder because I feel like that is such a great just guiding light in life of just paying attention to what are these things that I can have like one conversation and suddenly you just feel lighter and have more capacity for the things that are important.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 28:21

Yeah. It's amazing, like, the space that opens up when you kind of get rid of that in your life.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 28:28

Yeah, and I'm curious, one thing I see a lot with the people that I talk to, and especially around boundaries, is that guilt, like feeling bad, you know, saying no to a client, cutting them off, so how do you deal with that? How did you feel like when you started to do that after being so used to just saying yes to everybody, making that switch and starting to say no, it sounds like in some ways you did feel that weight lifted. Did you have any of that guilt or how was that for you?

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 29:01

Sure, of course, I mean, setting boundaries is hard. Um, I do think for right or wrong, having kids really shifted my perspective and that's hard to explain until you have them, but some things just weren't that important anymore, right? Like getting home to my children at seven o'clock at night on a true emergency. No qualms. I, I, doesn't bother me at all. Getting home late because someone added four things on because they don't respect my time, I'm not okay with that anymore. And, and even firing clients, like, I took an easy way out, right? Like, I blamed it on the kids sometimes if it was if it was more of a core value mismatch, then I blamed it on the kids and just said, you know, I'm cutting way back and so that's not not possible for everyone to do but And it's also not possible if you're not the boss, right? I realized I was in a very you know Advantaged position because it was my practice and I could make the rules and not everyone's in that position But yeah, no setting boundaries is hard. It gets a little easier every time you do it because you see the payoff

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 30:14

Yeah.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 30:14

and The bottom line is you just have to know that there is going to be guilt and discomfort and you just have to ride it out and know, you know, have, have the end goal in mind. Whatever is important to you, like why you're setting that boundary, have that in mind and just ride through the discomfort and it does get a little bit easier.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 30:35

Absolutely, yeah. I like to think of it as like a success hangover, right? Like, there's a little bit of that like feeling of like, ugh, but it's just like, you know, your nervous system isn't used to it. And I think it can be so helpful to have, like, a community or people in your life who are there to, remind you that what you just did was awesome and that it's, you know, so good that you're prioritizing, what you need to support your energy and sanity, especially during those times

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 31:03

Yeah, and like get an accountability buddy, right? Like we had a group, a group text going that was like, Oh my God, like this person, you know, said this or like this person, you know, didn't pay their bill again. And they'd be like, everyone would be like, uh, and they're still a client why? You know, just any way you can find accountability or support, I agree, is like so helpful.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 31:27

yeah, I think it is so important and, you know, I think when I hear your story, it sounds like for a long time you were in that, like, Survival mode and you know get stuck in like these trauma responses, and I think it's important to be finding ways to start showing our nervous system safety and having like a community or like a group like that where you feel like you can just actually be yourself and express how you're feeling and just feeling seen I think is just such an awesome way to start helping your nervous system to feel safe especially as you're doing those kinds of things that are also making changes to protect your energy

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 32:09

Yeah, and I've been in groups that's like just venting and that's not helpful, right? Like to be in a group with someone saying like oh gosh I have to go inject a set of Hawks like what am I even doing and for the other person to be like, yeah I know this is so stupid like that doesn't help like you have to find the right group to be in that is actually like Um, you know, questioning you a little bit and pushing you and saying why, like, why are you feeling this way or like, have you considered looking at it this way? So that's also something to consider because there are some groups that aren't the greatest for you.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 32:46

gosh, yes, I love that you are differentiating between those two because you're so right. I mean one is just like creating that Negative brain filter of like everything sucks and then you know, you're just hearing everybody else talk about it And I think in vet med and outside of it. That is just a really contagious You know snowball effect that can get out of hand really quickly so I think it yeah finding that group where it is more like cheering you on and like helping to shift into more of a positive or growth mindset and yeah that like kind of getting curious about things. Yeah, I think that makes a huge difference. So you you've mentioned core values and I think that's a great topic to bring up because I do think that's another one of those things that in life can be so helpful when you are trying to be prioritizing things or especially if things, you know, if you're feeling burnt out or not sure what to do, I feel like that can really give you Direction again. Um, yeah. So when did you start to come up with core values and like get curious about those

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 34:03

Um. email. Where did I first hear about the idea of core values? Um, probably reading Brene Brown. Uh, I would think that I really love her book Dare to Lead. It covers a lot of different aspects of sort of personal development. So that's probably where it started. I actually did like a local, um, So you can get certified in Dare to Lead workshops and so I did a local one and we did eight weeks of working through Core Values, just Core Values, and so that's where I really narrowed mine down. And then I'm pretty lucky, I'm a mentor vet facilitator and so I get to be reminded of that. They have Core Values built into their five month program and so, um, I love that. Um, and I think that, you know, younger veterinarians are learning about that sooner because, yeah, for me, it was, I was well into my career, like 10, 10 years into my career when I kind of discovered them.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 34:58

Yeah. Yeah. It was really far into mine as well.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 35:02

I think for me, the, the most important part, like you said, is like in difficult situations or like when you're not sure. Knowing that you can lean on your core values to help you make a decision and whether it's the right or wrong decision, if you do it within a core value, it still feels okay. It's like when you're going outside of a core value or when you're, you know, asked to do something outside of a core value, that's when things really start piling on and feeling terrible.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 35:30

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, and for anyone listening, if you're not really familiar with core values, they basically are just like the values when you, like, think about everything that's most important to you. If you, like, boil all of that down into just, I usually say, like, two to four words maybe that really summarize it. That's kind of core values. And I totally agree, Brene Brown is such a good resource, and she, you can easily find like a PDF from her Dare to Lead that has a really good list of words for people, and I think that can be helpful. So, um, what are your core values?

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 36:11

Making a difference and authenticity. And so, um, I kind of mentioned the making a difference one, but, um, I've found that certain clients that I think are a little two faced or, you know, like I said, will say, Oh yeah, that sounds great. But then go ask three other people. Those people I always like struggled with and like that they don't bother everybody I have lots of mutual clients and with other vets and they don't bother other people so much and that once I Realized that authenticity was one of my core values. I'm like Uh, that's why I cannot jive with that person because I don't think they're being authentic to me and that doesn't feel good. And I don't want to be in a relationship with someone that can't be their authentic self with me. Like, I'm fine if you tell me, no, that sounds stupid. I'm going to go get a second opinion. Like, great. I do not know everything. Go get four other opinions, but don't like, don't like lie to me and then do it behind my back. Right. So, and that probably feels bad for everybody. No one wants that, but, um, I've just noticed that for me that that comes up a fair bit with, with, um, clients.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 37:20

Yeah. I think that's such a great example of how once you know your core value it really is helpful or like problem solving those times when you're like something doesn't feel good.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 37:30

Yeah, or, or like for me, going into a difficult discussion with an employee. Like, if I make something up and like, I, I, I will admit I was not great at hiring technicians or like doing enough research. And so I've rotated through a fair share and you know, then I went without one for way too long because I was scared to hire them. But like initially if I had to let someone go, I'd kind of like fluff through it and make something up and not be direct and that feels terrible. And I still Um, and then it's like, I'm not sure that's how I feel. Like, I have like I have a lot of anxiety about my

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 38:23

Yeah, that's such a great point, too. It just, yeah, I mean, when you are not showing up authentically, it really just never feels good, right? And, yeah, as a people pleaser, I feel like there are so many times that I just like was showing up as a person that I thought that I should be and not just like allowing myself to show up authentically. And it sounds like it seems like it shouldn't be hard to just show up as you, but it can be really hard,

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 38:53

and yeah, I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do. I'm not sure if I feel like that at all. But, um, I, I do want to feel like I should feel like I should do that, and

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 39:04

So I want to go back a little bit to, when you were talking about your burnout story, because I think one thing I want to be doing a lot on this podcast is hearing different stories of times when people were reaching those low points and what happens in order to change that. Because I think even just hearing other people's stories and realizing, you know, if someone's feeling stuck, they are not alone, that someone else has been there. And just hearing about like, what helped them to To get out of that is so helpful and and with your story I think it's nice and that it sounds like you know Like it doesn't have to be this one big moment when you suddenly make this huge shift and everything's different it's like can be the difference between for you, it sounds like even listening to a podcast episode started to shift your mindset a little bit. What are some little, really doable things that you feel like helped?

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 40:05

Yeah, um definitely I think just giving myself time in the day or the week to Plan things out, right? I've, during that period, I felt like my life was just running me, and I've told people this before, I was like, barely keeping my head above water, I was like, just treading, treading, treading, treading, getting through the day, getting through the week, between the kids stuff, and the work stuff, and, so, I think being intentional about My schedule and creating some time blocking around my schedule was really helpful. And then being disciplined enough to stick to that rather than just throw it all out the window the second, like an emergency happened. Um, Another, this isn't a small thing, but it's something I left out was that I discovered a mindfulness based stress reduction course, uh, through UMass. It was online. It was like before zoom was a thing. I remember I had no idea how to use zoom. and I, I don't know if it like came up on like a Facebook ad or something. I, I'd started hearing about mindfulness, like you said, on some of these podcasts and different things I had found. And this one targeted me. I wanted to stop yelling at my kids so much. I felt like I was really short tempered with my kids. Like they didn't deserve it. It was just like, you know, in that burnout time when I was like stressed and tired all the time. And so I discovered that. And honestly. Mindfulness really has like changed my life. I, I did that course and then I did, um, a mindfulness based self compassion course, which like even further helped me. And so those aren't small things, right? Those are eight and 10 week courses where you spend three hours or so a week with a group. But even if you can find a way to work some mindfulness into your life without doing that, whether that's like a 10 minute guided meditation or, you know, getting to your yoga class twice a week. or literally just 10 minutes of journaling by yourself a week. Um, I think those things help and the way that I continue kind of my self care is literally five minutes of gratitude journaling and, you know, as As often, I try to do that daily and then, you know, mindfulness a couple times a week. I'm not great at it, right? Like I said, I, self care drops off. If I get something added onto my plate, I swap out my exercise spot for it and that's not a great plan, but that's just how I am. And so even mindfulness a couple times a week, a 10 minute guided or just 10 minutes quiet is honestly been a game changer for me.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 42:52

I think, yeah, mindfulness and self compassion, those two things you just said, they really are game changers, and I think, you know, they can sound like,

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 43:02

Mm hmm.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 43:03

make that big of a difference, but It really does, yeah. I mean, and it really is just changing your brain, even, and the way that you're working, and it really is helping you to be in a much more positive. Mindset. And I think, you know, even I would recommend with clients starting even just with like a minute or two or like starting the morning maybe with, I call it coffee meditating. If you are just sitting and being present with your coffee and just enjoying how it tastes and smells and the warmth. It's like any moments that you can just listen or be aware of your surroundings makes such a huge difference.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 43:44

Yeah. Um, and I was going to say, um, Even for the self compassion idea, I mean there's so much research behind both of those things that like it does sound woo woo But there is a lot of research showing the benefits on our mental health and our kind of resilience to burnout and things so for self compassion like even Creating just one phrase that, like, when you start to notice that cycle, I do this weird thing where I get really stressed when I'm late, and then I make it way worse. So I drive to appointments, obviously, and so I don't like being late. I don't like wasting people's time. And, I'll do this thing where I start spiraling and I'm like, Stacy, you should have left earlier. And oh my gosh, like what if there's traffic and like, oh my God, this road is going to be closed. And then, you know, like none of that is true, right? That's just this negative spiral. And I couldn't have left earlier because the last appointment ran late or like the kid, you know, whatever, the diaper blew out or something. But so. Even coming up with a phrase to stop yourself and whether that's like I did the best that I could this morning with what I had to work with like if you can just stop that spiral and notice it and be like Whoa, that was a spiral that you did not need to go down Stacy that alone can be such a change to your day That that is like one thing. I tell people to do if they can is create some phrase that stops you in your tracks Yeah

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 45:08

good recommendation and tip as it is. It's really, it sounds like that inner critic is just taking over those negative judgmental thoughts that are totally unhelpful. And I think it's helpful to name that voice too. Like I named mine BK for buzzkill and some of my clients have. The best names, like one is like Lia for Light Extinguishing Asshole, I mean there's like really good ones.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 45:36

That is good. Yeah.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 45:37

yeah. But it's another way, yeah, of just basically, yep, calling out, like, this is, these are not helpful thoughts and I think that's such a good tip to replace it with something that helps to just turn that around.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 45:51

Yeah.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 45:52

Love it. So, one of the things I am working on right now is creating a unicorn veterinary hospital list. So, basically, compiling a list of Hospitals in vet med that are just really rocking it and doing it right. Like they are really Prioritizing and supporting their employees. They just feel valued respected and supported It's like a place that they're excited to go and just at the end of the day You feel like you've made a difference, but you also have enough energy to to be a person outside of vet med And I know that there are those You know practices out there that are doing such a great job, and I want it to be easier to find Easier for people to find them and also to be having them you know talking about what they are doing So I'm curious from your perspective because I know that you have talked to so many You know practice owners, and I know in equine medicine there It's like 37 percent of you are solo, right? So, and that counts too, you know? Like, even the way that you are treating yourself, I think, is so important. So, I'd love to hear from your perspective, what do you think are some of the key things that do help to create a sustainable, enjoyable Workplace in Vet Med.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 47:19

Yeah, I saw your post on this and I think it's such a cool project. So I'm excited that you're doing this because it's always great to have a resource to send people to as far as like the list of places that we recommend. Um, you know, I'm gonna say that leadership skills are The best thing that I can recommend and this is not for equine only this is applicable to everybody But I think that small animal vets have a slight leg up on us in the equine world at least right like You know, like you said 37 percent of us are solo if you add in one and two doctor practices That becomes equine vets are in one or two doctor practices. And so I just don't think We've thought it important enough to have, like, practice managers, or even understand, like, practice management skills. And we're probably also not quite as profitable as small animal practice is. You know, there's some thing inherently to being mobile that makes us less efficient, and probably haven't kept up with price increases as much as we should have. So I think the thought of either slowing down to take time to do leadership or management duties is Potentially unheard of in some equine practices. So that's why I think this I when I think of it I think of these things and and like I said, it's not unique but even just like Having one on one conversations with your employees, right? Like, I, I think there's not that many equine practices doing that, um, because the vet that owns it is working just as hard as any associate there, and doesn't have a lot of CEO time planned into their week, and so it just doesn't get done. Um, you know, like the idea of engagement surveys, or like stay interviews. We, we worked on this a lot on the AAP Practice Culture Subcommittee this past year, and creating these resources, and we've gotten a lot of positive feedback, like, wow, this is so helpful to just have it ready for us, because A, we didn't know that this was important, and B, We never would have had time to research this to figure out how to do it. Um, the other thing that I think is really important and maybe more, um, applicable in equine, just because the demographic of who in, you know, historically has owned equine practices, but being as inclusive as possible in some decision making. So like, obviously you can't ask the entire team about every single decision you're going to make or like, you know, What you're, what CPA you're going to choose to use, but if there's a way to be inclusive with the team about whether you choose to switch vaccine manufacturers, like that makes a difference for the whole team. Like the front office has to recode everything, the associate vets have to have new recommendations, and if you as an owner are making that choice, Only because you got a great deal at AAP and you're gonna totally revamp your vaccine protocols. That doesn't feel great if you haven't asked anybody else. And so, that's a leadership skill that we need to work on. That's, you know, that's one little example of, of being inclusion, inclusive in decision making. Whether that's the equipment you decide to purchase or, you know, involve them in the next hiring process of the next team member. Any place that you can, I think, That makes people feel valued. That makes people feel a part of the team. Makes them feel more engaged. All of that research shows helps to decrease burnout and increase employee engagement and that increases retention of employees. So, for me, I don't know, maybe my brain is just focused on sort of retaining great equine vets, but that's where my head goes as far as a unicorn practice. It's in this day and age because like we're all working hard on elevating our quality of medicine and you know, I think that even the idea of raising prices to increase salaries is pretty commonplace currently. I think where we're falling behind other groups is this idea that we actually have to lead our practices because generally they are small or if they're not small, we're all just still busy and like work a lot.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 51:46

Mm. Yeah. I think that is so huge. I love that you're saying that because that really is everything. Like if they just feel seen and Included, really, right, is if they are just showing that you actually, like, want them to know the why behind all these decisions that, yeah, it does affect everybody, and it's so true, like, if they're having to do these things, and yet they don't understand why, and it's like another thing on top of, their already busy schedule, then, yeah, that is such a, uh, easy way to burn out and just want to be not feeling connected.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 52:26

and like, if you never get one on one time, even if it's 20 minutes with your boss, like, if you never get that time, you don't get to express to them how you're feeling or like, any great ideas that you have. I mean, this all cycles around psychological safety, right? Like, you didn't, you don't get the chance to suggest a great new idea that maybe your boss has never thought of because they don't work in the lab, um, or, you know, Or your boss gets a chance to explain to you, like, why X, Y, and Z couldn't happen because, you know, financially it didn't make sense or, you know, just the one on one time. And that does take time. Like, I'm not sitting here suggesting that it's easy and you could get it done in five minutes because it is intentional and it takes time out of your work schedule. I just think it's You know, in other businesses, it's been shown to be so beneficial to employee engagement that it's silly to not include that time in your work schedule as an owner.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 53:28

Yeah. I think that's so true. And it's just so helpful both ways, right? Because like as an owner, I feel like there can be so much stress of not really knowing how your employees are feeling or what they need or how you can support them. And when you're already feeling overwhelmed on your own, like that's just. And then, in the other end, the employee is just feeling just that simple act of the employer wanting to hear their feedback is such a huge way of helping them to feel a part of that, I think. So, and that's one of the goals with this, the Unicorn Veterinary Hospital, how I'm finding them is. through a workplace well being survey. So the owner can just give that to all of their employees. They can take that and it's a way of the owner being able to get a whole overview, kind of like take the temperature of the hospital, and In that assessment is also asking the employee, in, what format do you feel comfortable giving honest feedback? Because I think that that can be another tricky thing. There may be some employees that maybe, like, You know, one on one is a place where they maybe aren't feeling totally comfortable to be totally honest. And so I think that that can even be helpful of like, asking them, in what way would you be comfortable

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 54:57

are you better on a Zoom, so like we are one on one, but not face to face, or do you want to email back and forth, or, yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. It can't be a one size fits all. Like, whatever the owner prefers. It can't be that. You have to ask everybody what works best for them. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, it sounds like that survey you've created is a great example of, like, both an engagement survey and sort of a, how do you like to give and receive feedback. Yeah.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 55:23

Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for it. And my other hope is that it will be a way for us as a profession just to be collecting data about what is working. Because I think we do have so many well being resources out there, but maybe not a lot of feedback of like which ones are truly effective and like really changing, because you can say, you know. Take a yoga class, but you know, is that really like getting to like the root of it? So

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 55:52

For sure. That's awesome. I'm excited to see how that turns out as you get more info.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 55:57

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, i'm really excited. It's interesting seeing the feedback so far um because I know like when I was working full time and as an associate there were times when My employers, you know, they would want they would do that one on one feedback, but one thing that sometimes caught me off guard was there wouldn't be a warning. You know, it wouldn't be like, oh hey, we're gonna be having a meeting. It would just be suddenly we're having this meeting and getting asked these questions that if you haven't really had time to sit and think about them, sometimes it's hard to even know like, how are you feeling? Um,

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 56:35

When I, and also just like the habit of it too, when I first hired my associate, I sort of instituted Friday morning huddles. Mm hmm. Yes. And. The first time that we got together, I, she was like terrified and I, I went into it like, okay, this is gonna be great, I'm gonna hear from her. You know, because we rode around together for the first couple of months, and then once she was out on her own more, I kind of wanted to check in, so I was like, this is gonna be great, I'll hear like, if anyone was like, not welcoming to her, or like, if she has a question on a case, or like, and I think she came into it like, oh my god, this is a performance review, so A, I probably didn't set the expectations well enough, but also it's like, nerve wracking to have meetings if you don't do them that often, but now we do them every week or every other week, and You know, even by, like, the fourth or fifth time, she was, like, much calmer and, like, okay, this is actually, like, a conversation. This isn't, like, this horrible review that I'm gonna get yelled at about all the things I did wrong. So, yeah, just getting people, preparing them well, like you said, giving them time to prep, but then also doing it often enough that it's not this huge ordeal.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 57:45

yeah. I think that's a great story and example and just making sure you are, yeah, creating a safe environment. Well, time with you always flies by. I know that we've We're near the end of our time and I've really enjoyed. I think you've just shared so many valuable, tidbits and tips through your own experience and I think that everybody will be able to take something helpful out of this. Um, so before you go, can, you share where people can find you.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 58:20

Sure, yeah, um, thewholeveterinarian. com has lots of info. The podcast is available wherever you listen to podcasts, so that's just The Whole Veterinarian. And then if you want to connect, you can either email me gmail. com or easiest is probably Instagram, which is just at thewholeveterinarian. I try to keep it simple.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 58:41

Awesome.

stacey---she-her-_1_01-24-2024_110241: 58:42

Thanks so much for having me. This has been really fun chatting.

squadcaster-594j_1_01-24-2024_110241: 58:45

Oh, thank you for being here.

58:47

If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with someone who you think could benefit. And if you're enjoying this podcast, it would mean so much to me. If you would take the time to leave a review so that others can find me. And as I thank you. If you leave a review, send me an email, letting me know, and I'll send you. A free guided meditation for mental rehearsal. So that is exactly what elite athletes, executives, incredible surgeons all use at the scientifically proven way to improve performance. And the reason this works so well is because when you are mentally rehearsing, the same area of your brain is lighting up. As if you were actually doing it. And so it's a safe and effective way to be preparing and practicing and improving your skills for when you're actually living it in the moment. So send me an email at a million at life boost. Stop today if you leave a review and i can't wait to share that with you cheers your inevitable health happiness and success